Who are some of the best fighters who never received a title shot?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, Oct 15, 2007.


  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Just curious to hear a who's who of deserving fighters who, for whatever reason, never received a title shot.

    This can include those who never got a deserved shot at a specific weight despite getting shots at other weights, but I'm more interested in hearing opinions regarding pugilists who were never granted a deserved opportunity in any weight class.

    I look forward to reading some of your responses!

    :good
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    1 - Charley Burley. Burley was a WW forced to fight at MW because the incumbant WW champ (Fritzie Zivic who had already lost to Burley twice and still somehow beaten him to a title shot) bought out his contract to avoid him.

    Hank Armstrong (his people - Hank never ducked anyone) also ducked him, or failed to fight him, as did Sugar Ray Robinson, the big one. Burley went all the way to HW looking for action. If he weight more than 157, it usually meant he was out of shape.

    2 - Sam Langford. I would favour langford over most fighters in history 154-175 and yet he never fought for a title in his own time. Tragic.

    3 - The great black Heavyweights from the beginnning of last century.
     
  3. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    In addition the McGrain's excellent choices:

    Ezzard Charles never got a shot at the lightheavyweight title, despite dominating that division. That was back in the 40's.

    Harry Wills never got a shot at the heavyweight title. Some thing Dempsey or his management avoided him, others think the fight was not makeable due to racism...

    I think Pinklon Thomas in his prime was an outstanding fighter with a great jab and right hand (watch the one-punch KO over Weaver) was robbed of a shot at the linear title but Holmes. He did fight for an alphabet title and got his shot at Tyson's title later (Tyson was a lot more willingly than Holmes in taking on opponents by then), but Thomas had lost a lot of fighting ability by then.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeff Clark was the outstanding middleweight for many years without receiving a title shot.
     
  5. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The list goes on and on with black fighters. A few off the top of my head--Peter Jackson, Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVey, Harry Wills, Jeff Clark, Canada Lee, George Godfrey, Holman Williams, Charley Burley, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Eddie Booker, Elmer Ray--Many as good or better than most champions.

    Mauro Mina back in the sixties.
     
  6. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Sam Langford, Charley Burley and Peter Jackson.
     
  7. DavidPayne

    DavidPayne ***.boxingwriter.co.uk Full Member

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    Bennie Briscoe was a tough mother. Don't think he ever got a shot.

    Of course, the black greats of the early years are the obvious candidates.

    But yep, Charley Burley wins the award, if there is one.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Eddie Booker is an excellent choice OLD FOGEY.
     
  9. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's amplify this a bit.

    For some of the selections that have been contributed, how do you think they'd have fared had they gotten a title shot?

    Common sense would seem to dictate these pugilists didn't receive shots, at least in part, because they represented a threat.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    All the black fighters I named had excellent chances of winning a title and most, if not all would have been favored (Wills over Willard if not Dempsey) and many fought through the reigns of several champions. If your question is, were the official champions necessarily the best fighters, the answer is clearly often "no". Were black fighters often avoided because they were too good, the answer is "yes" and this was a cliche back in the old days.
     
  11. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, let's take this a step further.

    In your opinion, were the black fighters who did make it into the spotlight (either by getting or winning title shots) necessarily the best black fighters of their respective weight classes?

    Or for some reason, do you believe certain black fighters were able to cross the threshold for reasons other than talent and skills? Or, for the most parts, were the ones crossing the thresholds so exceptional that it was earned on its own merit?
     
  12. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

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    did billy petrolle get a title shot?
     
  13. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, no, but you are talking a long period of time. A good example is Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and Blackjack Billy Fox in the 1940's lightheavyweight class. Fox got the shot because he was owned lock, stock, and barrel by Blinky Palermo, a mafia bigshot. Charles and Moore later got a shot, however. If a black fighter was extremely flashy or entertaining, and box office, things could break his way--examples Robinson and Louis. Robinson had a flashy personality also. One who did not stand out as particularly entertaining in the ring could get the go-by pretty easily. There were outright and all but impassible color lines drawn at times, among the heavyweights prior to Louis, for example, but there were other color lines. In the forties Louis was champion among the heavies, and Robinson and Williams at welter and lightweight. I think the powers that be were worried about "too many black champions" and so black middles and lightheavies were screwed.

    Moore would be a classic example, a top middle and lightheavy contender for years, viewed perhaps as slightly dull and fighting almost exclusively against other blacks. When Marciano won the heavyweight crown, thus changing the racial equation, Moore immediately gets a shot and a new manager, Jack Kearns, and emerges as one of the most colorful and box-office fighters in the business.
     
  14. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Good stuff, Fogey!

    :good
     
  15. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony Canzoneri repelled The Fargo Express in defending his World Lightweight Championship in November, 1932.

    Unfortunately for Billy, this may have been Canzi's peak performance, and some have suggested that Tony was as good as Gans, Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong, Duran or any other lightweight who has ever lived on that occasion. Canzi's 15 round decision over Petrolle is the one primarily responsible for making Tony an inaugural enshrinee in the IBHOF.