Who are the greatest 15 fighters of the past 30 years??

Regarding, the Whitaker-Camacho sparring session, it's not just Steward who holds that opinion. Ring Magazine writer Gavin Evans has said it as well, whilst writing for The Fist Magazine.

To quote him:

"Even before lifting Olympic gold, he outclassed Hector Camacho in sparring."


:good

 

Pernell Whitaker and Howard Davis are worlds apart in terms of level of ability. Just look at the difference between what the two achieved. That should put you on alert right there that handspeed is a very small facet of what goes towards making a great fighter.

If you want any more proof, just look at the difference between what Camacho and Whitaker achieved. And whilst you're at it, look at the way Whitaker was able to fight DLH when an aging cokehead, and look at the way Hector got owned by Chavez as an aging cokehead. Both had lost their speed, but something remained in one that the other ALWAYS lacked :good

 

It's a credit to fighters when they lose their titles at such an advanced age. I never banged on about age too much, it was who both lost to combined with both being past their primes and age was thrown in. Mullings was a journeyman and De La Hoya was youthful rising star.

And you also went onto say "In that case you'll place Hop at the very top over Ali, Robinson, Louis, pep, Jones..." I do happen to have Chavez ahead of Norris as an ATG, but not based in you're words "a fighters age he begins losing at makes him better". You plain crazy or just daft. You happened to mention Chavez wasn't great partly because he couldn't beat any great opponents and you mentioned the De La Hoya defeat. You're favourite, Norris, was beaten by a journeyman when he was three years younger with half as many fights. I was talking about one fight in each of their careers.

 

Even when I answer all of your ridiculous, simple-minded questions, you refuse to answer mine by claiming I'm blowing smoke with my answers, even when you have no rebuttal to them. Clever.:good

 

Camacho would have let him last the distance? So Camacho had the ability and punching power to stop Chavez if both were in their primes, that what you're trying to tell me? For someone to come the conclusion that Camacho would have beaten Chavez over the distance when in their primes is an opinion I can live with, even though I disagree with such a prediction. You used the word "let" which is alarming to say the least.

Nonsense. Camacho was an average puncher, and no average puncher stops a prime Chavez.

 

What you say is true but Hector had a style a bit different from Pernell that woldnt work for him without the speed. He was able to dart in quickly and score before opponents could retaliate. Without speed this style would not work for him. With his speed I'm not certain another boxer could outpoint him, not even Pernell. Someone like Duran or Ike Williams could.

 

Camacho would have a decent chance of outpointing Ike Williams imo. It probably turns into a Camacho-Rosario type affair once Ike zeroes in, but Hector might work up enough rounds in the interrim to take it.

Camacho did rely heavily on his speed, it was his greatest feature, easily, but Hector always struck me as the type of fighter that threw punches with the primary intention of landing quickly rather than landing accurately. Penrell Whitaker was the opposite. He was always measured and tried to land accurately more so than quickly.

Imo, even though Camacho could blur his hands, he wouldn't land much on Whitaker. Same way a young DLH couldn't land much on Whitaker. Letting your hands go fast in and of itself isn't the antidote to Pea.

 

My list:

1. Ray Leonard
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Roy Jones Jr
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Tommy Hearns
6. Julio Cesar Chavez
7. Larry Holmes
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Roberto Duran
10. Michael Spinks
11. Floyd Mayweather Jr
12. Alexis Arguello
13. Bernard Hopkins
14. Asumah Nelson
15. Wilfred Benitez

 

Now the 2011 version you have to throw Pac way up there

1.Ray Leonard
2.Pernell Whitttaker
3.Julio Cesar Chavez
4.Manny Pacquiao he's very close to passing Chavez and Whittaker up.
5.Evander Holyfield
6.Michael Spinks
7.Marvin Hagler
8.Roy Jones
9.Thomas Hearns
10.Floyd Mayweather
11.Salvador Sanchez
12.Oscar Delahoya
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Ricardo Lopez
15.Larry Holmes

Would have put Arguello in there but i had to forget about his FW reign. I might have put him 14 or maybe not ???

Barrera,Morales,DUran,Mosley,Benitez,Pryor,Tyson,Toney, MarquezMccallum,Trinidad,Nelson Lewis are the others.


Duran would have been number 1 if i could include his lw reign.. BUt he was hot and cold,he still almost made the cut though.

 

[Edit] Repost on this thread!

I did this 2006:


Top 30 who turned pro since 1976:

30 James Toney
29 Ronald 'Winky' Wright
28 Orlando Canizales
27 Mike Tyson
26 Sot Chitalada
25 Jeff Chandler
24 Lennox Lewis
23 Floyd Mayweather Jr
22 Aaron Pryor
21 Myung Woo Yuh
20 Jung Koo Chang
19 Kostya Tszyu
18 Brian Mitchell
17 Jeff Fenech
16 Salvador Sanchez
15 Marco Antonio Barrera
14 Mike McCallum
13 Felix Trinidad
12 Evander Holyfield
11 Khoasio Galaxy
10 Michael Spinks
9 Azumah Nelson
8 Bernard Hopkins
7 Ricardo Lopez
6 Roy Jones
5 Thomas Hearns
4 Pernell Whitaker
3 Oscar de la Hoya
2 Julio Cesar Chavez
1 Ray Leonard

 

You've got balls posting that list again i'll give you that.:good

 

For 2006, it works very well.

 

1. Mike McCallum
2. Muhammad Qawi
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Sugar Ray Leonard
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Roberto Duran
7. James Toney
8. Chris Byrd
9. David Tua
10. Orlin Norris
11. Roy Jones
12. Oliver McCall
13. Ricardo Lopez
14. Manny Pacquiao
15. Hector Camacho / Juan Manuel Marquez / Oscar Delahoya


16. Steve Collins / Eubank / Benn / Barkley / Sims / Hearns / Merqui Sosa / Reggie Johnson / Alexis Arguello

 

:-(


Holy is Top 5, at least Top 10 on any sane person's list.

 

1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Thomas Hearns
3. Michael Spinks
4. Larry Holmes
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
9. Roy Jones Jr.
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Wilfred Benitez
12. Oscar Delahoya
13. Mike Tyson
14. Alexis Arguello
15. Aaron Pryor