Who are the ten best heavy weight contenders?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Gazelle Punch, Sep 17, 2020.


  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Based on these men and their resumes who's best five wins each were voted on, are the best contenders to ever live? The voting system will be based like so
    First place equals 10 points
    Second = 9
    Third = 8
    Fourth=7
    And so on. At the end of four days or minimum of ten voters the voting will end. You may use whatever criteria you like besides resume. But would like you to strongly take resume into consideration as you are who you beat. Look forward to the debate!

    Archie Moore
    1)Harold Johnson
    2) Nino Valdez
    3) Jimmy Bivins
    4) Bob Baker
    5) Bob Satterfield

    Chris Byrd
    1) Vitali Klitschko
    2) David Tua
    3) Evander Holyfield
    4) Jameel Mcline
    5) Fres Oquendo

    Sam Langford
    1) Harry Wills
    2) Joe Jeanette
    3) Sam Mcvea
    4) Gun Boat Smith
    5) George Godfrey

    Joe Jeannette
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Sam Mcvea
    3) Jack Johnson
    4) Jeff Clarke
    5) George Carpentier

    Harry Wills
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Sam Mcvea
    3) Luis Angel Firpo
    4) Fred Fulton
    5) Joe Jeannette

    Jerry Quarry
    1) Floyd Patterson
    2) Ron Lyle
    3) Earnie Shavers
    4) Mac Foster
    3) Thad Spencer

    Jimmy Bivins
    1) Bob Pastor
    2) Ezzard Charles
    3) Lee Q Murray
    4) Three way tie Archie Moore
    5) Joey Maxim/ Lee Savold

    Ken Norton
    1) Muhammad Ali
    2) Jimmy Young
    3) Jerry Quarry
    4) Three way tie Ron Stander
    5) Larry Middleton/ Henry Clark

    Oscar Bonavena
    1) Karl Mildenberger
    2) Zora Foley
    3) Leotis Martin
    4) George Chuvalo
    5) Gregorio Peralta

    Harold Johnson
    1) Ezzard Charles
    2) Eddie Machen
    3) Archie Moore
    4) Jimmy Bivins
    5) Nino Valdez


    Bob Pastor
    1) Jimmy Bivins
    2) Turkey Thompson
    3) Lem Franklin
    4) Roscoe Toles (tied for fourth)
    5) Gus Lesnevich (tied for fourth)


    David Tua
    1) Hasim Rahman (tied for first)
    2) John Ruiz (tie for first)
    3) Fres Oquendo
    4) Oleg Maskaev
    5) Michael Moorer

    Zora Foley
    1) Eddie Machen
    2) Nino Valdez
    3) Henry Cooper
    4) Bob Cleroux
    5) George Chuvalo


    Eddie Machen
    1) Nino Valdez
    2) Jerry Quarry
    3) Hurricane Jackson
    4) Doug Jones
    5) Bob Baker


    Ron Lyle
    1) Oscar Bonavena
    2) Jimmy Ellis
    3) Earnie Shavers
    4) Joe Bugner (tie for 4/5)
    5) Larry Middleton


    Cleveland Williams
    1) Earnie Terrell
    2) Alex Miteff
    3) Billy Daniels
    4) Dic Richardson
    5) Alonzo Johnson

    Nino Valdez
    1) Ezzard Charles
    2) Tommy Jackson
    3) Don ****ell
    4) Brian London
    5) Mike Dejohn

    Frank Bruno
    1) Oliver McCall
    2) Gerrie Coetzee
    3) Joe Bugner
    4) Carl Williams
    5) James Tillis

    Sam Mcvea
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Joe Jeanette (tie for second)
    3) Harry Wills (tie for second)
    4) Jeff Clark (tie for fourth)
    5) Denver Ed Martin (tie for fourth)

    Donovan Ruddock
    1) Mike Weaver (tie for first)
    2) Michael Dokes (tie for first)
    3) Bone crusher Smith
    4) Greg Page
    5) Phil Jackson

    Tommy Morrison
    1) George Foreman
    2) Donovan Ruddock
    3) Carl Williams
    4) Joe Hipp
    5) Pinklon Thomas

    Corrie Sanders
    1) Wladimit Klitschko
    2) Carlos Deleon
    3) Ross Puritty
    4) Johnny Du Plooy (tied for fourth)
    5) Bert Cooper (tied for fourth)

    Ernie Terrell
    1) Zora Foley
    2) Eddie Machen
    3) Cleveland Williams
    4) George Chuvalo
    5) Doug Jones

    Bob Baker
    1) Nino Valdes
    2) Rex Layne
    3) Jimmy Bivins
    4) George Chuvalo
    5) Johnny Holman

    Jimmy Ellis
    1) Floyd Patterson (tied for first)
    2) Jerry Quarry (tied for first)
    3) Oscar Bonavena
    4) Leotis Martin
    5) George Chuvalo

    Buster Mathis
    1) George Chuvalo
    2) Amos Lincoln
    3) Bob Stallings
    4) Chuck Wepner
    5) James Beattie

    Lou Nova
    1) Max Baer
    2) Tommy Farr
    3) Gunnar Barland
    4) Pat Comiskey
    5) Abe Simon and Lee Ramage tie

    Elmer Ray
    1) Ezzard Charles
    2) Jersey Joe Walcott
    3) Lee Savold
    4) Obie Walker
    5) Sid Peaks/ Leroy Haynes tie

    Jimmy Young
    1) George Foreman
    2) Ron Lyle
    3) Jose Luis Garcia
    4) John L Gardner
    5) Richard Dunn

    Tommy Loughran
    1) MaX Baer (tied for first)
    2) Jack Sharkey (tied for first)
    3) Ernie Schaaf
    4) James Braddock
    5) Steve Hamas

    Rex Layne
    1) Jersey Joe Walcott
    2) Ezzard Charles
    3) Bob Satterfield
    4) Turkey Thompson
    5) Cesar Brion

    Buddy Baer
    1) Tony Galento
    2) Lee Savold
    3) Nathan Mann
    4) Abe Simon
    5) Al Delaney


    Billy Conn
    1) Bob Pastor
    2) Lee Savold
    3) Al Mcoy
    4) Gunnar Barland
    5) Melio Bettina

    Earnie Shavers
    1) Ken Norton
    2) Jimmy Ellis
    3) Joe Bugner
    4) Jimmy Young
    5) Henry Clark

    Gerry Cooney
    1) Ken Norton
    2) Jimmy Young
    3) Ron Lyle
    4) Dini Dennis
    5) Eddie Gregg

    Alexander Povetkin
    1) Ruslan Chagaev
    2) Eddie Chambers (tied for 2/3)
    3) Dillian Whyte (tied for 2/3)
    4) Chris Byrd
    5) Hasim Rahman

    Lamon Brewster
    1) Wladimir Klitschko
    2) Andrew Golata
    3) Luan Krasniqui
    4) Kali Meehan
    5) Tommy Martin

    Bob Satterfield
    1) Harold Johnson
    2) Bob Baker
    3) Nino Valdez
    4) Lee Oma
    5) Cleveland Williams

    Gun Boat Smith
    1) Sam Langford
    2) Jess Willard
    3) Battling Levinsky (tied for 3rd)
    4) Fireman Jim Flynn ( tied for 3rd)
    5) Frank Moran

    George Chuvalo
    1) Jerry Quarry
    2) Doug Jones
    3) Bob Cleroux
    4) Mike Dejohn
    5) Cleveland Williams/ Manuel Ramos (tied)

    Lee Savold
    1) Lou Nova
    2) Joe Baksi
    3) Bruce Woodcock
    4) Lem Franklin
    5) Tony Musto

    Mike Weaver
    1) John Tate
    2) Gerrie Coetzee
    3) Carl Williams
    4) James Tillis
    5) Bernardo Mercado

    Young Stribling
    1) Johnny Risko
    2) Maxie Rosenbloom (tied for 2)
    3) Tuffy Griffiths (Tied for 2)
    4) Tommy Loughran
    5) Primo Carnera

    Michael Dokes
    1) Mike Weaver
    2) Randall Cobb
    3) Jimmy Young
    4) Ossi Ocasio
    5) John Gardner/ George Chaplin tied

    Tami Mauriello
    1) Lee Savold
    2) Lee Oma
    3) Lou Nova
    4) Bruce Woodcock
    5) Red Burman

    Ernie Schaff
    1) Max Baer
    2) Tommy Loughran
    3) James Braddock
    4) Young Stribling (tied for fourth)
    5) Johnny Risko (tied for fourth)

    John Ruiz
    1) Evander Holyfield
    2) Hasim Rahman
    3) Andrew Golata
    4) Kirk Johnson
    5) Fres Oquendo

    Ruslan Chagaev
    1) Nikolai Valuev
    2) John Ruiz
    3) Kali Meehan
    4) Fres Oquendo (three way tie 4/5)
    5) Vladimir Vyrchys/ Francesco Pianetta

    Oliver McCall
    1) Lennox Lewis
    2) Larry Holmes
    3) Henry Akinwade
    4) Francesco Damiani
    5) Oleg Maskaev/ Bruce Seldon (tie)

    Tim Witherspoon
    1) Frank Bruno
    2) Tony Tubbs
    3) Greg Page
    4) Carl Williams
    5) Renaldo Snipes

    Peter Jackson

    1) Frank Slavin
    2) Patsy Cardiff
    3) Denver Ed Smith
    4) George Godfrey
    5) Joe McAuliffe
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  2. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well went through all these and thought coming up w a top ten wouldn’t be to bad but damn it’s tough. So many great fighters left off. Well here we go I wonder if I’ll change it before the end...

    1) Harry Wills
    2) Archie Moore
    3) Tommy Loughran
    4) Sam Langford
    5) Jimmy Ellis
    6) Alexander Povetkin
    7) Ernie Terrell
    8) Harold Johnson
    9) Jimmy Bivins
    10) Frank Bruno

    went with Bruno at the 10 for his KO percentage and his fights against Lennox and Tyson. Had them both hurt at points of the fight. My next in line was the following six Eddie Machen, Jerry Quarry, Ken Norton (I feel is slightly over rated), Tim Witherspoon, Ernie Schaff...maybe I’ll change my mind on one or two. Let’s see yours!
     
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I may well change it, but first thoughts are

    1. Harry Wills
    2. Sam Langford
    3. Ken Norton
    4. Peter Jackson
    5. Chris Byrd
    6. Elmer Ray
    7. Archie Moore
    8. Tommy Loughran
    9. Sam McVey
    10. Joe Jeannette
     
  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Peter Jackson isn’t an option sadly. Would have liked to add him had he been recommended earlier.
     
  5. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    First thing for me is defining what exactly we are evaluating. You mention Bruno in losing fights. Is this the same as who has the best five victories? Bruno doesn't seem in the hunt for me on that basis.

    I want to study this, but going on who has the best five wins, I would toss these out as criteria:

    !----beating a champion or champions at or near their prime. In other words, beating not just good fighters, but the best fighters out there.
    2----how should we consider losing a lot? Some fighters are very good and beat the best but then regress and hang on losing to all kinds of ordinary opposition. Ezzard Charles, Kid Gavilan, and Joe Brown are three examples among champions.
    3----How important is depth versus big wins? I lean toward big wins myself.
    4----As it would distort everything, I don't believe we should consider paper champions the same as lineal champions.

    Any other criteria you think I or other posters should consider?

    Right now I am going to think on my list.
     
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    How on earth were people suggesting Gunboat Smith, Jimmy Bivins and Lee Savold before Peter Jackson?
     
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’d say Bivins record is far superior to Jackson’s. The other two not sure. Not many people are knowledgeable pre 1900. Would have personally liked some help on that front.
     
  8. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree criteria is going to be very personal. This isn’t a one size fits all. I think the best five victories only would put people like Satterfield in the hunt when he doesn’t deserve to be there . Due to his losses in my opinion. But that’s my take and it may not be yours.
     
  9. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I more mean I think Jackson is a far more obvious pick, atleast in my opinion
     
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  10. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    By reputation and record Jackson is greater. But what are his top five wins and how do they compare to the top wins of other contenders? Did he beat a recognized champion? How many top contenders? How many were among the best in world?

    I understood this exercise as trying to evaluate which contender has the best five top wins, not who in a h2h sense is the best fighter who was never champion due to the color line or some other factor.

    It is not too late for someone to give a list for Peter Jackson. I don't think anyone has because no one participating knows enough about the era to compose a good list.
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    #10. Jerry Quarry
    #9. Jimmy Young
    #8. Eddie Machen
    #7. Alexander Povetkin
    #6. Vitali Klitschko
    #5. Sam Langford
    #4. Tim Witherspoon
    #3. Ken Norton
    #2. Chris Byrd
    #1. Harry Wills

    :deal:
     
  12. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Took out Vitali due to controversy on wether he was lineal or not. But nice list
     
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  13. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Going off hand it'd be something like

    1. Frank Slavin
    2. Patsy Cardiff
    3. Denver Ed Smith
    4. George Godfrey
    5. Joe McAuliffe

    The Slavin win is the big stand out.

    @janitor probably has something to add
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Oh, well, just move everyone below him up and add Rex Layne.
     
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  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    For shame you people aren’t even looking at the lists tsk tsk lol