Who beat better competition Wlad or Vitali?

By 2004 he was working with Emanuel Steward and Wlad picked up a loss in Steward's third fight in command. Can't blame that on Vitali or Universum.

He definitely improved. But Manny already had an established world class fighter and athlete to work with. One who was nurtured by someone else long before he came into the picture.

Yes something definitely changed. No one's saying it didn't.. But the degree of change ranges from an already very good fighter stepping up to being a better one. Not some useless untalented oaf with no ability to being the GOAT the way you seem to be spinning it.

I think he would have made top 100. He was an olympic gold medalist who held a world title with wins over several top raters and a record of 40-2. That's as good or better than a lot of what's in the top 100 now. And as for him making top five he still has work to do. His brother helped him to tame the division, he still has unavenged losses to lesser fighters that will never be avenged and his opposition has been considerably weak on top of having a lot of unimpressive performances. His longevity is what puts him in the top 10 right now for me. If he makes good use of that five year contract he just signed and chalks up another 7 or 8 decent wins over up and comers then I'll place him ahead of the the likes of Holmes, Marciano and Lewis.

 

SILVER SKULL,

Just because the end result was the same, it doesn't mean that the circumstances were.

Duran was in a mega fight, and he was being taunted by Leonard. He was also behind on the cards. And his legendary trainer Ray Arcel, along with his assistant trainer Freddie Brown, was absolutely furious that he quit. Also, his manager Carlos Elita, was quoted as saying "Duran didn't quit because of stomach cramps. He quit because he was getting embarrassed. And I know this." Apparently, Duran partied hard that same night.

When Vitali fought Byrd, it wasn't a huge fight. Byrd hadn't really achieved anything at the time, and he was a late replacement for Donovan Ruddock. When he quit late on in the fight, he was ahead on all of the cards. According to Vitali, the doctor advised him to quit to save his career. Then according to reports, Vitali had surgery after the fight to repair it. So if that was true, (I've no reason to doubt it) I don't really understand the controversy. It's not like Vitali was clearly losing, so he looked for a way out. So although Byrd officially won, I don't think it was anything to really celebrate. It's not as though he conclusively beat him. In my opinion, it would be like celebrating Montell Griffin's win over Roy Jones.

But who are you to say such a thing? Have you ever torn your rotator cuff or had a broken jaw during a fight?

Yes, Vitali lost, but again all the circumstances have to be looked at objectively. Would you call that a conclusive victory for Byrd? I wouldn't. A rematch would have been nice though, but both brothers helped each other out during their careers. Wlad fought Byrd before Vitali fought again. Maybe after Wlad had beaten him, Vitali didn't feel the need to fight him? I don't know.

You said it was mind boggling to you that people think Vitali was better? Again, why is that?

Wlad is vulnerable. He's always been vulnerable. He was knocked out three times in his 20's, he went life and death with Peter in their first fight, and Manny has made him an ultra cautious safety first fighter. Although he's got great ability, many of his fights have been dull.

Vitali was much more formidable, but due to injuries, he couldn't fight as often.

Wlad just has the better stats because he's fought 20 times more. But that doesn't mean he was the better fighter when they were both active.

Statistics don't allow for circumstances.

If Wlad fights on for another 5 years, then statistically, he may be classed as the greatest HW of all time. But you shouldn't have any issue whatsoever with people claiming that other fighters are ahead of him on a head to head basis.

Wlad hasn't fought a huge list of ATG HW's. He's basically fought the same caliber of opponents as Vitali has. Again, the only difference is, he's fought many more times. And while his longevity deserves an enormous amount of respect, it doesn't necessarily mean he was the better fighter.

Again, Wlad's longevity deserves enormous respect. But nobody can help being injured. Vitali has undergone surgery on his shoulder, his knees, and his back. It's just unfortunate circumstances.

Personally, I don't care if Wlad finishes on 80 fights. Vitali has shown me in his 47 fights, that he was the all-around better HW.

 

More durable?

 

Vitali no doubt has the better chin, but I think Wlad is probably less "injury" prone. Both men have durability issues just not the same kind.

 

You are correct.

If you're looking from the perspective of Wlad having great longevity, where Vitali was forced to retire, then yes, Wlad was more durable.

But I was looking from the perspective of both fighters in the ring. In the ring, Vitali was much more durable. Wlad has been knocked down plenty of times, as well as obviously being knocked out. He was always vulnerable. Whereas, Vitali was much tougher.

 

His chin is decent, but he'll always be vulnerable in a way that Vitali wasn't.

In my honest opinion, the reason he hasn't been knocked down or out in a long time, is due to a culmination of the following things:

He's a great fighter.

The division is weak.

He fights in an ultra cautious manner.

He has physical advantages over a lot of his opponents.

 

Have to agree with Loudon.

Wlad's greatest asset isn't his chin or jab or even his dynamite punching power, it is his head. He fights really smart, and in a way that maximizes his assets while neutralizing those of his opponent. That's why he has enjoyed such longevity. I feel that Vitali was to a large extent the same sort of thinking fighter, btw. Vitali's advantage over Wlad is his durability.

I think that if they ever fought Wlad would have to throw caution to the wind and try use his heavy artillery to blast Vitali out early, because over a long match, Vitali will simply break him down and wear him out. I also think that Wlad is one of the few heavyweights who has the power and skill to accomplish such a thing ... but if I were a betting man, the cash would be on Vits.

 

I thought the idea of Vitali being the better H2H fighter had to started to lose pace on this forum in recent years. Good to see some share the same view as me. I see it as Wlad accomplishing more, but all in all, Vitali takes a 12 rounder, most likely by knockout

 

You need to familiarize yourself with the meaning of the word MARGINALLY, lad.

 

:good

 

:good

A lot of fans will only debate on resumes and statistics. Whereas although I'll take that into account, I will always debate based on a head to head basis.

There's nothing wrong with that, as long as your opinions are logical.

If they weren't brothers, I have no doubt that Vitali would have broken him down both mentally and physically in a fight.

 

:nut