Who beat better opposition Sonny Liston or Jack Dempsey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, May 22, 2015.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    In my opinion no brainer

    It's Sonny Liston.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 22, 2015
    SuzieQ49, May 22, 2015
    #1
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Liston
     
    lufcrazy, May 22, 2015
    lufcrazy, May 22, 2015
    #2
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's close IMO. Very close between them. Plus, complicated by the lack of footage on some Dempsey guys.
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2015
    McGrain, May 22, 2015
    #3
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Liston by a long way.
     
    PowerPuncher, May 22, 2015
    PowerPuncher, May 22, 2015
    #4
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would have to go with Dempsey.

    I think that if Ring Magazine's rankings had been in place early in Dempsey's career, we would start to see clear water between his rampage and Liston's.
     
    janitor, May 22, 2015
    janitor, May 22, 2015
    #5
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    How is it close?

    patterson is easily better than anyone Dempsey beat. Patterson beats Sharkey and knocks gibbons out.

    Machen and Folley would have shutout old Willard and Fulton in a 12 round fight

    Williams would blow out firpo

    Clark valdes Dejohn Summerlin beat carpentier Brennan levinsky dying Misske

    If Dempsey had beaten Greb and wills then we would have something to talk about
     
    SuzieQ49, May 22, 2015
    SuzieQ49, May 22, 2015
    #6
  7. nikrj

    nikrj Active Member Full Member

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    Liston.
     
    nikrj, May 22, 2015
    nikrj, May 22, 2015
    #7
  8. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Liston
     
    Vince Voltage, May 22, 2015
    Vince Voltage, May 22, 2015
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well that's an opinion.

    It's one I share though. I think Patterson is the best fighter either man beat. I think Patterson would beat Sharkey. These two aside I think the six best Dempsey beat, in order, were:

    Gibbons
    Fulton
    Miske
    Willard
    Levinsky
    Firpo

    Liston's six best outside those two:

    Zora Folley
    Eddie Machen
    Nino Valdes
    Cleveland Williams
    Henry Clark
    Johnny Summerlin

    That, to me, looks very close and when you add the fact that it's cross-era, things get really complex. I'd pick Williams to beat Willard under 1950s rules, but Willard to beat Williams under 1920s rules, for example. Machen-Fulton is extremely difficult to call. Folley-Gibbons too, though i'd go for Gibbons. I'd pick Firpo to beat Summerlin. Miske-Valdes is close (to me anyway). It's close, I reckon.
     
    McGrain, May 23, 2015
    McGrain, May 23, 2015
    #9
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Exactly , for example how good was Fulton? We know he was good enough to beat Langford twice.
    How some one can confidently say Folley or Machen would have shut him out I don't know?
    Of what little we have seen could Brennan beat Folley,Machen?
    Could Gibbons?
    Folley was kod by near novice Lavorante, Zora did not have iron whiskers.
     
    mcvey, May 23, 2015
    mcvey, May 23, 2015
    #10
  11. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dempsey...
     
    RockyJim, May 23, 2015
    RockyJim, May 23, 2015
    #11
  12. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    It's close, but gun to the head time, I'd give Sonny the nod. ( and the fuking gun if he demanded it )
     
    Foxy 01, May 23, 2015
    Foxy 01, May 23, 2015
    #12
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
    McGrain, May 23, 2015
    McGrain, May 23, 2015
    #13
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that where Dempsey has the edge, is in the fact that he beat all those guys when they were a key player in the division, while some of Liston's best names were beaten before or after they were a key player i.e Wiliams and Valdez.
     
    janitor, May 23, 2015
    janitor, May 23, 2015
    #14
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Liston beat good names. But it is a short list of "at the time" rated contenders that he fought.

    Machen, Folley and Harris were curent. Then he beat Patterson. It is a shorter list overall than Dempsey.

    Dempsey has Willard, Sharkey, Brennan, miske and Fulton when they were current.

    I think Henry Clark had a rating when Liston fought him but Valdes and Dejohn were erratic fringe guys by then. Proberbly valdes and co are like some of the "white hope" guys Dempsey fought like Gunboat, Morris, pelkey, Levinsky etc. These guys were once names like valdes had been. Big cat Williams never got a rating until he fought Miteff. I rate Fulton better than Williams.

    Dempsey defended against Firpo, Carpentier and Gibbons who were certainly not the best possible fights that could be made but presented insensitive for the chalengers to become champions which in itself makes them good opponents.
     
    choklab, May 23, 2015
    choklab, May 23, 2015
    #15
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