Who beats a prime Roy Jones head to Head under 190lb?

If you're interested I've got numerous links, videos and book excerpts to hand.

Let me know.


:good

 

So in an ABSOLUTE sense, as in against all comers at all sizes, when do you guys think Jones was best? Not vs. his opposition, but what Jones would beat most guys at ANY weight/
For that matter, what about guys like Hearns?

Do we agree that some like him were relatively best at a lighter weight, but in an absolute sense, were best at LHW or CW?

 

Maybe the Jones that fought Sosa.

 

Cheers for that matey. I will have a look at those clips A.S.A.P.

:good

 

No problem.

It's a pleasure debating with you.


:good

 

Always worth taking a look.

Thank you.

 

Janitor,


Part 1


I don't know if you'll be interested in viewing everything that's listed here, but I've listed it anyway. So no worries if you either don't view it all, or if you view it over time.

Before I give you the various links, I'll just note some key pieces of info. First of all, until Roy split from his father in 1992 and signed with HBO, his career was going nowhere. Although Big Roy helped to make him into the extraordinary talent that he was, he also stifled his progress by wrapping him up in cotton wool. Which meant that he missed out on some great potential MW matches of the early 90's, that the likes of Toney were involved in.

The next thing to consider is that fights are hard to make, especially the bigger ones. There's a variety of problems that can occur. Such as: Rival networks, rival organisations, rival promoters, promoters wanting options, lawyers, egos, guarantees and PPV splits etc. For most of his career, Roy was handled by the Levin brothers - Fred and Stan. And they wouldn't tie Roy in with a big promoter, and they were always extremely cautious of doing business with Don King.

Finally, the myth that Roy was reluctant, which is why I've made this post. For most of Roy's career, he was basically in a no win situation. Because he was so talented, people wanted to see him unify divisions and fight the biggest fights available. Which was perfectly understandable. But when certain big fights were unable to be made, he either had to fight mandatories, or whoever was available that suited everyone concerned. As you'll no doubt be aware, he fought on HBO numerous times. And sometimes they crucified his opposition in public and hung him out to dry. But what a lot of people don't realise, is that on a number of occasions, they also publicly supported him when certain fights were unable to be made.

Now of course they wanted him to unify divisions and achieve everything possible while he was on their network. But unifying a division just brought more criticism. Because after he'd unified, he then had mandatory obligations to fulfil from three organisations. Which wouldn't have been too bad, if there'd been lots of mega fights/big fights that could have been made in between. But because they weren't, he found himself in a loop where he was continuously defending against guys like Woods, Kelly and Frazier etc. (no disrespect to those guys) And it wasn't his fault that he was on another level to those guys and they were put forward as the number one contenders. It's also worth noting that HBO had a pre approved list, and they obviously must have known that the more belts he won, the more defences he'd have to make. So I think it's grossly unfair that people say that Roy purposely avoided the best competition out there, and that he was only interested in fighting bums on a cushy HBO contract. He clearly wasn't, and although there were some fights that he wasn't interested in, he fought a very high number of ranked contenders, again as well as pursuing better opposition.

 

Part 2


Below, are various links, to articles, videos and book excerpts, just to highlight why a lot of potentially great fights never materialised.


Go to the 18th min mark of the Beyond the Glory documentary below, to see Fred Levin speak on how Big Roy hid title opportunities from him:

[url]https://youtu.be/KkpwPLswnPg[/url]


Below, is a brief interview with Julian Jackson who states that Roy's team wouldn't let Roy fight him. When Jackson refers to 'they' he actually means Big Roy, who he specifically mentioned in another interview from around the same period. But unfortunately I don't have it to hand.

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE4QFjAFahUKEwjTmO-Jq5THAhXnZ9sKHbczBxA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxinginsider.com%2Fheadlines%2Fkeeping-up-with-julian-jackson%2F&ei=v0LDVZO9E-fP7Qa355yAAQ&usg=AFQjCNGT9Ebvoi0aUIKMPQtBPG-ZCcKoGg[/url]


Below, is a brief article where Roy discusses the problems of dealing with Don King in regards to a Jackson fight after the split from his father. Although Roy did end up working with Don in his 30's, he was always both reluctant and cautious.

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFsQFjAHahUKEwjTmO-Jq5THAhXnZ9sKHbczBxA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F1993%2F02%2F13%2Fsports%2Fboxing-jones-ducks-king-s-delivery-and-lands-his-punches.html&ei=v0LDVZO9E-fP7Qa355yAAQ&usg=AFQjCNG97l3qsRY9_mxAqKcw4XKKh8MeEw[/url]


Below, is an article highlighting the problems in making a Nigel Benn fight:

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQFjABahUKEwiKq6CQ6JXHAhXFB9sKHWlvBIw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.*****************%2Farchive%2Findex.php%2Ft-26041.html&ei=-wjEVcpBxY_sBunekeAI&usg=AFQjCNF3xk_2PrbXturmcbgjCeDD1JMEfw[/url]


Below, is an in ring interview just prior to the Bryan Brannon bout in 1996, where HBO publicly supported the fact he was having a hard time making bigger fights:

[url]https://youtu.be/4TPjvtASn0c[/url]


Below, is an interview with Frankie Liles' former manager Jack O'Halloran, who states that Frankie was offered a great fight with Roy, but he blew it by asking for more money:

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAAahUKEwi3jtarrJTHAhVSZ9sKHWXgDKg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fringsidereport.com%2F%3Fp%3D2112&ei=EkTDVbe9J9LO7QblwLPACg&usg=AFQjCNHSA3_YQbIQjS3oZ9HIyI4LV3Q7tw[/url]


Below, are two excerpts from Jim Thomas' book. Jim Thomas was Evander Holyfield's attorney for thirteen years, and he was responsible for making all of his fights:

[url]https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yfjzsb7BASMC&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=roy+jones+greg+fritz+jim+thomas+evander+holyfield&source=bl&ots=mU9sPNIz55&sig=5orJLkJDR3OxP2heytE8ObOG470&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAWoVChMI4_Se3bePxwIV6GrbCh1WPw02[/url]

[url]https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yfjzsb7BASMC&pg=PA221&lpg=PA221&dq=roy+jones+jim+thomas+evander+holyfield+don+king+murad+muhammad&source=bl&ots=mU9sPNIA73&sig=izCwYV9-uAX5KBVTHBBTZSbn1Nk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAWoVChMI3pC_lbiPxwIVUXDbCh0C1QGK[/url]


Below, is just one of many articles on the Dariusz M saga. Basically, neither man was willing to travel due to ego. Although, Roy never said he would go to Germany, whereas Dariusz and his promoter did say that Dariusz would go to the U.S.

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC8QFjACahUKEwjK1__TrJTHAhVGOdsKHabwDBo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondsout.com%2Fcolumns%2Fpaul-upham%2Fjacobs-rejects-kohls-jones-michalczewski-claim&ei=Z0TDVYqIDcby7Aam4bPQAQ&usg=AFQjCNF81iE14anhUEzK9WC6CeMa4CtncQ[/url]


Below, are two articles, containing comments from Joe Calzaghe, that indicate why an early match between them was never viable:

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjADahUKEwienqjgrZTHAhWFj9sKHY4fCHg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefreelibrary.com%2FBoxing%253A%2BI'm%2Blord%2Bof%2Bthe%2BWelsh%2Brings%2Bsays%2BCalzaghe.-a060444934&ei=jUXDVd6jHYWf7gaOv6DABw&usg=AFQjCNF3ysuN84aDc4ba0qzOLrKKpC7d2Q&bvm=bv.99556055,d.ZGU[/url]

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjABahUKEwiko4b9rZTHAhXEFdsKHTVPBJY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.co.uk%2Fsport%2Fi-am-the-best-says-honest-joe-6352495.html&ei=yUXDVeSaLcSr7Aa1npGwCQ&usg=AFQjCNGBiajy97Q2nyzEcM3Y1U61BRttVw[/url]


Finally, an article highlighting the difficulties of making a Hopkins rematch in 2002:

[url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwivsLGNrpTHAhUJa9sKHQCVCE0&url=http%3A%2F%2Fusatoday30.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Fboxing%2Fstories%2F2002-07-10-jones-hopkins.htm&ei=7EXDVa8KidbtBoCqougE&usg=AFQjCNH6eH-0FShj_iEzCSy0GdKRM39trw&bvm=bv.99556055,d.ZGU[/url]



I hope you'll find the above information of some interest.


Loudon.

 

He would get trapped on the ropes eventually. He almost always did. Against 99.9% of fighters he just counters them brutally but against ATGs...

 

How many times was Roy trapped on the ropes? He used to put himself in that position voluntarily for the most part, to lure people in for counters, and to have a little break.

 

he did it over and over against griffin despite it not working for him at all. Because it's just something he couldn't stop doing.

So are we supposed to believe he just got pinned on the ropes all the time because his opponents weren't dangerous, but if he faced Marciano he'd all of a sudden be circling with a jab?

Best to presume he'd fight the way he always fought.

 

You said he always got trapped on the ropes. And it read as though you were saying he was always manoeuvred into that position. But he wasn't.

I've never mentioned Marciano. That would have been a very tough fight for Roy. Extremely dangerous. But yes, I believe he'd have fought Rocky in a completely different manner, using different tactics. Montell was a small, defensive counter puncher who had very good skills. But he didn't have huge power. Whereas Rocky was a no nonsense come forward fighter who was as tough as they came, and who possessed huge power. I think Roy would have done everything in his power to avoid going anywhere near the ropes against him. It'd have been suicide to have tried to have lured him in to find an opening. Even if Roy had covered up, Rocky would have just pounded away at his arms etc. Roy would had to have kept him in the centre of the ring, away from him, to win.

 

I could see Spinks beating Jones.

Jones in his prime would be a handful for anyone,,

he was not as well rounded as given credit for

he was super fast but there were a few *****s in his armour even in his prime.

 

:good

 

Few would argue he was. He had an unorthodox brilliance and exceptional speed which was very hard to deal with.