Who beats Ali? No hedging your bets, who do YOU pick to straight up beat him?

Where were Williams ranked when Ali took him on?

 

Yes, but these fighters were going downhill also, you can't just have from Ali's perspective (which invariably loads on here do). Ellis wasn't as good in late 1971 as he was in 1968, would the Ali of 1967 have stopped Bonavena? Who's to say he would fight more stationary in those final rounds like he did in 1970 when he scored the stoppage? The Frazier fight may have been a title defence in, say, 1969 that he wasn't as 'up' for as he must have been in 1971, when it was the biggest fight ever (or at least for mnay a year). Norton a big underdog could score the upset as Ali doesn't take this 'voluntary defence' very seriously (and it's no secret that Ali oft-enjoyed the company of floosies).

 

I'm in work so I'm not sure. Going out tonight too- so I'll find out tomorrow if you want. Probably #1 in The ring, because their rankings were so shite. I'd say around 8 in a less-corrupt magazine (like Boxing News and Boxing Illustrated) as a guess.

 

Manny Pacquiao.

 

Well, let's say that the Ellis fight turns out like it did in 1971, when both were a bit past their primes. Still an easy win. Bonavena might last the distance, but I don't think he would give Ali much trouble in 1967.

Yeah, these two are hard to call, My take on Frazier in 1969 is this: Sure, he would have underrated Frazier, but it would still be obvious that it was his toughest opponent for some time. And before the exile he always stayed in good shape, so I believe he would pull it out. But I can see why someone would have a different opinion.

As for Norton, a lot hinges on that broken jaw. There were specific circumstances that led to that fracture (an extracted tooth), so maybe it wouldn't have been broken this time around. Also, Ali might have taken it more seriously if it was a title fight. His attitude towards training seems to have lapsed somewhat after the exile, as well. So this one is up in the air as I see it. Impossible to call.

 

Yeah, it would be interesting to know.

 

Yes, I agree.

Again, yep. Fair dinkum.

Again, yes. Also, the round of the broken jaw is debatable. It could have just likely been late on.

 

A 1996 Lennox Lewis.............

 

Bonavena and Quarry would not be easy wins as you have suggested. Both were tough contenders during Ali's exile, and to suggest he would have wiped the floor with Bonavena and Quarry is no doubt, a matter of opinion, that I disagree with.

 

He defeated Quarry very easily on two occassions in the 70's. If anything he would be even more superior in the late 60's. He had Quarry's number, and that's all there is to it.

Bonavena was a more tricky proposition for him, but I think Ali still looked a bit rusty and, especiallly, unsure of his legs when they met. Had the fight taken place as originally planned, in 1967, I've no doubt that Ali would have won more convincingly. I never said anything about "wiping the floor" with him, though.

 

Jimmy Ellis schooled Bonavena and 67 Ali was a lot better. Their styles were similar and totally different to frazier v oscar style of fight. Ali had such a hard time against Bonavena cuz his legs were gone, his timing, reflexes, conditioning are all affected by a big lay-off. ali was lucky that a cut stopped the Quarry fight after only 3 rounds. if it lasted longer ali woulda tired badly and quarry woulda started finding his target and having success - a quick moving target is a lot harder to hit than a slow tired flatfooted moving one - ali even said he was surprised how tired he felt after doing only 3 rounds. no way is a peak ali laying on any ropes for any long time periods - first time it happened was against bonavena and then frazier. Not once in the 60s is ali laying on the ropes for a reasonable amount of time and he fought similar style in cooper, jones etc they were lighter and were/moved quicker than most heavies - i didn't see ali laying on no ropes, it was move, move, move all the time. no way does a peak 65-67 ali tire as badly. conclusion - ali's whole style of fighting was about movement so it's crystal clear which version was best and which version would do better against frazier or norton - actually the 2nd fights give you a good clue. peak 65-67 version would do better against frazier and norton. frazier would be the toughest and would always be a hard fight. be ali would be a more quicker moving target and therefore harder to hit - which his peak style was all based on. he had to adapt after exile cuz his legs weren't as good so he did adapt.

 

That's pretty much it. I think Norton always would be a tough proposition as well, though.

 

I would bet on Ali vs any other heavyweight.

 

I agree, Ali did fight a weaker batch...other than Liston who Quit and took a dive....Williams was shot and was Ko'd by Liston, Bob Satterfield and the policemans bullets prior to the Ali fight...Ali's tougher fights were during the comeback

 

While i agree his tougher fights were post exile, I still dont buy that Ali was better post exile. I dont think any athlete has come back better after a lay off.