Who beats Ali? No hedging your bets, who do YOU pick to straight up beat him?

Folley was no Johnson, but his more modern style helped him. He had a couple of moments earlly on when Ali still figured him out, after that...

As someone stated previously, guys that was far, far lesser fighters than Ali gave Johnson trouble on the outside. This "if so and so..." usually works both ways.

The crucial difference between Johnson and Norton is that Norton was awkward and fought out of a crouch. Ali very rarely had trouble with straight backed fighters, and against one who also held his hands low...

Ok. This is where I see his chance, and it's just not great enough. Ali was just about never breached in clinches like that, even though Johnson admittely was a master at doing it.

This is nonsense, no more no less. He had Terrell badly rocked at least once, but didn't want to follow up. Just about everyone that watched the fight believed Ali could have KO'd Terrell if he wanted to. You ever seen Terrell's face at the end of the fight? He took an absolute battering - and that while using a peek-a-boo guard.

I agree that Ali had opportunities to go to the body which he didn't utilise, though.

Maybe sound fundamentals for his time. But anyone coming in to a gym today with Johnson's style would be corrected by the trainers. If you box, I would like to dare you to use Johnson's style in sparring (not that Ali's style would serve you any better, of course).

Ironic isn't it.

 

congratulations... you named three Clay oppnents being dismantled..... No mention of a Lewis opponent. HA HA HA.

 

Cant argue your point, except to add that Tyson was a beaten man outside the ring prior to that fight. Managerial issues, marriage issues, car accident, fight postponement... numerous other mentions.
Upon the moments leading up to the fight, seconds before the first bell, Tyson looked disinterested, uncertain and flat..
Always a fit looking bloke, he really didnt seem to be there at that time though.
This is a perfect example of a disasterous preparation... he may have been in good physical condition, but the mental aspect was tired.

In my opinion, Ali, in hindsight stepped up for FOTC prematurely. History shows how well Ali handled Frazier in the other 2 battles. The heat in Manilla, combined with his age, and the strength of Joe suggests the brilliance of Ali.
No fighter has had a perfect career... there have been dramas in the lifes of all, and these problems shine brightly come fight night.
The FOTC would have been another fight.. without the build up, had Clay not been stripped.. Joe would have worked his way through the ranks, and been a serious contender... yet, IMO..Clay would have taken him to school.
The same Clay, would treat Lewis with distain...IMO. In fact, Lewis would have battled coming up through the ranks in that era. The likes of Frasier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes later.., would be great opponents to witness against Lewis. IMO.
Unfortunately, we are just here to speculate the outcomes.

 

Congratulations, you're the worst poster the Classic Forum's ever seen.

 

He was battered twice by Golota and befuddled by the trickery and hand-speed of Tubbs and received a joke decision. He's embarrassingly overrated based on one performance. Stop it.

 

A bit harsh, but the extreme's people have to go to. I mean, dismissing Lewis' KO of Golota as nothing, then praising Ali's so-so win over Mildenberger. Come on. :huh

 

He also mentions this about Lewis " No hand speed... and boring to the viewers..." And in one of his later posts says that Tyson was 5 years past his peak when Lewis beat him. "Why???? Because he beat an already beaten Tyson.. past his peak by 5 years??" He's on the right track with Tyson being past his prime, I'll give him that, but he's at least a decade off with his precision.

Lewis' handspeed wasn't quite on Ali's level, no arguments, although I do feel he's extremely underrated in that department. He wasn't consistent with his speed, but sometimes he showed flashes convincing enough to be right up there with the elite speedsters in heavyweight history.

Boring to the viewers? Ruddock, Mercer, Golota, Briggs, Holyfield II, Botha, Grant, Rahman II, Klitschko. Devastating finishes with power early or long sustained battles.

 

>>worst poster classic forum has ever seen
>>poster not named "CMC II"


does not compute.

 

Much of Ali's praise is handed out without much thought. I am not saying that he was not a great heavyweight just vastly overated. People wrongly assume that because people fought in his era then they where somehow automatically 50% better fighters than they actually where. For example Terrell, Chuvalo, and Mildenberger where all poor heavyweights that would not have made a dent in the 90's. But taking it further to the 70's - George Foreman was a dumbo in the 70's without a defense, Fraizer was a small heavyweight with a questionable chin - how many times was he knocked down in his career?????? Norton was again small and pretty average. People also gloss over the amount of bums Ali fought and the amout of truely dull fights he was in.

None of Ali's opponents had anything approaching the Size, Strength, Power, Skill, or intelligance of Lennox Lewis. If you disregard the hype and mythology this fight is a no brainer Lewis would handle Ali with ease.

 

McCall, Rahman and Mercer would all have done very well in the 60's and 70's.

 

He fought opponents who were more skilled (Moore, Jones, Folley, Patterson, Ellis, Young etc), just as smart (Moore, Ellis, Follley) and at least near Lewis in terms of power (Foreman, Shavers, Listoon). I'd agree that he never fought anyone that combined all the attributes you name as Lewis did, though.

But Lewis fought no one who even came close to Ali in terms of speed, work rate and ring generalship. And very few of his opponents were as skilled (Holyfield perhaps, but who else?). So it works both ways.

You need to take a step back and look at the picture once more, because you're doing yourself no favours with this ranting.

Lewis was great, but he was beaten by no-hopers and had trouble with guys who's not even in Ali's stratospere, so to say that he would "handle Ali with ease..." Hell, even an Holyfield pushing 40 gave him some trouble in the rematch, what makes you believe that a peak Ali would be an easy night's work?

For me, this is an intriguing match-up and neither fighter takes it at a canter.

 

I'm not really after any favours thanks. As for saying Holyfield pushed him all the way - which he did, what about Leon Spinks, Ken Norton etc I think holyfield would also have beaten Ali in a tough gruelling fight.

I really do think this would be an easy fight for Lewis, Ali does not have the power to win Lewis' respect. He is simpley not big enough, p4p then yes Ali may win but not on actual size. I think fighters like Grant, Golota, Ruddock, Rahman, the Klitchkos would have done well in the 60's 70's because of their size - this guys would drawf Liston & Foreman. I just think that heavyweights have evolved somewhat.

If you stand back from all the hype - a good big fighter will beat a good small fighter, that is why boxing has weight divisions. So it is perfevtly logical that a very skilled Lewis can beat Ali.

 

bull****. ali not ko'd in any fight (not including the holmes farce when the corner stopped it). he fought the top punchers of 60s and 70s and not once been stopped even when he was clearly past it re shavers. foreman and shavers hit harder than lewis. peak ali didn't fight spinks so what's he got to do with it.

 

Foreman & Shavers - did not hit as hard as Lewis. Henry Cooper almost killed Ali - so he could be badly hurt.