Who beats Ali? No hedging your bets, who do YOU pick to straight up beat him?

Or maybe we best just throw Gregory Hines in there...

This content is protected

 

Easy now.

Who gave Johnson fits from the outside? Certainly not Moran, who mostly bulled in like most Johnson opponents.

I don't think Norton was a croucher. He basically dragged that right foot and came in arms crossed, moving his head away. Ali couldn't open him up because that head was not easy to get to with simple one-two headhunting. And that is my point regarding Johnson. Considering Ali's lack of a body attack, if Johnson could make Ali lunge forward looking for head shots, it could be a long night for Ali. Norton could successfully counter Ali to body and head because he was powerful, and Johnson was too, with wicked right hooks and uppercuts.

Well of course Terrell's face was hamburger after 15 rounds of mostly standing there with his arms up! Yet the only time he was staggered was when he bulled into Ali near the ropes. But a passive and/or elusive target was too often an enigma to Ali (yes, witness Young), who was an opportunist who took advantage of his speed to capitalize on openings from rushing foes who wanted to kill him. And you know as well as I that Ali himself said he didn't think he could take out Terrell. He obviously did his best. Comments to the contrary are naked hero worship.

Well, although a heavyweight myself in the gym, I love the D'Amato tradition of high hands, thank you, but, then again, I have never claimed to be a Johnson or Ali.

 

I was referring to what another poster said. Check out his post earlier this thread.

Norton was more of a croucher than he was a straight backed fighter. He was awkward, dragging the right foot behind him. Sure, his cross-arm guard was effective against Ali, but the thing is that Johnson didn't use such defence. He hardly used any guard at all.

He tried to reach Ali at times, but failed miserable. Fact remains - he used a peek-a-boo guard but was still brutally beaten. Yes, he was only badly rocked on one occassion, but most contemprorary obeservers believed that Ali easily could have taken him out then but wouldn't. And don't forget that Terrell was very durable.

Young is the only I can come to think of who did that, and using that version of Ali as an example is like using the Johnson who lost to Willard.

Those who said he could have KO'd Terrell if he had wanted to attacked him for his cruelty. It was not hero worship, quite the opposite.

For example Joe Louis and George Chuvalo both thought that Ali could score the KO if he wanted to when they commentated on the fight. Personally, I don't think Ali carried Terrell as much as is popularily suggested, so I'm inclined to believe Ali to a certain extent, but who really knows.

Thing is, Ali beat Terrell with most punches in the book and thorougly outclassed him. Can't really see how this fight testifies to his ineptness.

Me neither. Their styles should only be used if one has a substantial advantage in speed and/or size. Since Johnson was at a disadvantage in both these aspects (especially speed) compared to Ali, I just don't see it working for him.

 

Respect to your opinion True Writer, but I have to strongly disagree with you on this one.

George Foreman is univerally considered by many trainers and fighters as having the most power in both hands. I'm not going to name the list of interviews and accolades regarding Foreman's power, but it is historically known with very little argument that George has the most power.

Earnie Shavers' right hand is the only punch in the history of heavyweight boxing that gets more respect as a harder punch than Foreman's right hand. The main difference between Shavers and Foreman is the fact that Shavers' left hand is nowhere near as strong as Foremans.

Sonny Liston is often mentioned with the above two because of his overall power as well. Liston's jab is known by many to be the hardest but not the fastest. His left hand is the only punch like Earnie Shavers right hand that is considered marginally better than Foremans

Lennox Lewis' right hand I would place #4 in the heavyweight rankings after Foreman, Shavers, Mike Tyson and ahead of Tua and Max Baer.

Henry Cooper was never close to killing Ali, but I'll admit that he was that close to stopping him. Dundee was smart, tearing Ali's glove in the corner after the round to stall for more time. Ali was out-boxing Cooper until the knockdown, but to his luck he survived the round.

 

Nice post Flamengo. I don't believe 1960's Ali would have taken Frazier to school though. The Cleveland Williams example that is used religiously on this forum is a very poor illustration of the so-called "greatness" of Ali. Williams was nowhere near the contender that he was after taking a bullet in the abdomen before the Ali fight.

Frazier would have given Ali problems no matter what point in their careers. I think it is a reasonable conclusion, prime for prime, that 1960's Ali has the better chance at out-pointing 1960's Frazier. Ali was quicker on his feet with better reflexes and he seemed to have more endurance at that time in his career. He never danced for an entire 15 round fight as many on this forum says he did. Joe would still catch him and hurt him to the body though, and this would be the difference. The decision could go either way, but Ali would never take Joe to school without getting a serious boxing lesson himself.

 

Ken Norton- Norton had the perfect style to go tooth and nail against Ali. No matter what version of Ali he was facing. Remember only a couple of points seperated them in three bouts.

 

Thanks for the kind words mate... yet, I still have to get off the ropes and defend myself again...

Regarding Frazier coming throught the ranks, and in the event of Clay having continued through the exiled period, Im certain Joe would quickly obtain the No.1 ranking, and fight Clay in 68 or 69, the timing may have been perfect. Clay was still advancing, improving, maturing before the lay off period. We missed some great moments.

 

Amen to that :good

 

Get your head out of your arse. Lewis was slapped by two, sub-standard, mediorce, illagitemate never-could-have-beens. He went to sleep like a lazy dog. If you, and your blinded boyfriends cant take these KOs into the wankers career retrospect, then you are both... collectively.. dickheads. Take a good look through the career records of Mc**** and Rahrah, there is nothing at all to give Lewis any forgiveness... especially having been put to sleep. Dont be stupid enough to say "....other than those KO's his chin was rather solid"...

These 2 dummies that KOd him, were perhaps the closest to their peaks, compared to any 'former great' that Spewis had the courage to fight. He was a coward in the scheme of the games history. A tool designed for the modern game, who deservees more credit for the managers avoiding Bowe and other talented men in the States until they were in adult diapers.

Yeah, he is tall... strong.. blah blah... whatever. He was a feminine fighter. I never saw him go to the well, and truly dig deep... summoning up courage and strength from the deepest reserves that shows any sign of credentials.

 

You're going to be the jewel of general, i can just see it

:good

 

Be a bit constructive and mature with your replies. I can take your nonsense with a pinch of salt. Speaking to some others on here like that might well get you brushed with the same paint in return.

Why was he a coward? He was willing to fight anyone. Bowe ducked him, and Tyson seemed to make excuses at the drop of a hat up until they eventually met. He decided to avoid Lewis, drop his WBC belt, and take the easier fight on paper against Holyfield. And Lewis wasn't exactly a coward with his intentions. He rematched two fighters who had knocked him out and returned the favour on them both. McCall cried and quit, while Rahman was dominated and stretched out. One punch knockout losses are enough to de-motivate most fighters in persuing a return with their conquerors.

A feminine fighter? You really are making a fool of yourself. You never saw him go to the well? Ohhh dear, you must have missed the Mercer fight, and his rematch with Holyfield, and his very last fight against Klitschko. Lewis wasn't a fighter who seeked going to the well. He usually dominated his opposition with his boxing skills, a constructed gameplan over the distance or put it all on the line by opening up early to evaporate an opponent with his speed and power.

 

Lennox Lewis beats him.
Larry Holmes beats him.
Joe Louis beats him.
Prime Mike Tyson beats him.

 

Exactly if a guy like Norton (small, pretty slow and not a big puncher) could beat Ali (2 out of 3 if we're honest) then Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe would all handle Ali with relative ease.