Who beats Ali? No hedging your bets, who do YOU pick to straight up beat him?

In his prime, Fraser, Norton, Marciano, and Jersey Joe, these are the blokes who would worry him with Ali he is just too good to pick a definite fighter to beat him

 

If Norton can hit Ali, then Louis can too.

Louis has much faster hands and hit much harder than Norton.

And a case can be made that Norton won all 3 of his Ali fights.

 

His prime is a "mythical prime" of around early 1969, which we never got to see. He would be at peak insofar as strength is concerned, yet still super fast.

That version of Ali was (more correctly would have been) the greatest of all heavyweights from my perspective and I would pick no one to beat him.

Best chances? Frazier, Foreman, Liston (not the old washed up Liston that Ali beat, but the one that fought while Patterson was champ).

 

Nobody for me.

 

Of course many heavyweights could have beaten this supposedly prime Ali, the first and foremost being the supposedly depleted (but actually more skilled) Ali from the early 70's, the second being the Frazier who took him down in the FOTC and the 10th being Vit K. Yes, the TENTH. On tape the 1960's Ali looks great beating the likes of the very normal Terrell, the extremely over-rated Williams and the almost never-was of Patterson. Folley, Cooper, London? Are you kidding me? If this is the stuff of legend, give me a motivated Evander Holyfield to beat him. I do not believe the the 66 Ali was unbeatable, but merely someone who faced a very beatable group of fighters and left that enticing hint of the "what-could-have-been" which the sporting set ranks higher than actual achievement.

 

Im fed up with the Marciano name been given a shot against Clay/Ali...

Ive watched more than enough Marciano, that Im willing to suggest, The Clay 67, 68 and anytime there after would have belted the Rock. Around the time Leon Spinks prevailed against Ali, I would say Marciano would have been in with a shot. I question the outcome of the Spinks who beat Ali, against marciano also...

 

Its interesting that you picked the Ali of the Norton fights when he was 31 in the first two and 34 in the third fight.Then you say if Norton could hit him Louis would have I presume you mean the Louis of a comparable age,ie the fighter who beat a washed up Conn the second time and was wobbled by Mauriello,in their shootout,gained what many consider a gift decision against Walcott and was dropped in the return fight? Level playing fields?

 

Yes, but they were slow jabbers.

My intial statement was, " I have serious question on how Ali matches up with Super heavies or heavies his size that have quality jabs and some hand speed.

Ali had trouble with jabbers at all at almost every stage of his career.

Doug Jones, Kenny Norton, Bob Foster, Ron Lyle, Larry Holmes.

And no, Frazier didn't feature a jab, and Foreman was not much of a jabber in the 1970's either."

 

I don't know where you've got the notion that Lyle troubled Ali with his jab. He hardly landed a jab in that fight. Ali didn't land that many either, but he quickly found out that he could counter witth his right over Lyle's jab. So, he didn't how much trouble with it. He gave away a lot of rounds by doing nothing, but doesn't mean he was outjabbed.

Jones primairly gave Ali trouble by countering him with his right. His jab played a lesser part.

Foster and Norton obviously landed jabs on Ali, but in Foster's case it was probably also a matter of Ali not taking him seriously and clowning around for much of the fight. They showed that it was a wise strategy to counter Ali's jab with one's own when Ali was stationary, though. But Ali was more stationary in the 70's than in the 60's.

Foreman was a good jabber in the 70's, but, for whatever reason, he didn't use it much against Ali.

Bugner and Terrell both had very quick jabs with long reach, and Ali dealt with those. Ellis had a good jab, Ali dealt with it.

 

I wouldn't favor anybody against a prime Ali but if I had to it would be Frazier, Norton, Marciano and Holmes.

 

Two that could very well beat him were Holmes and Lewis. Each could improve upon Ken Norton's success against Ali, being superior fighters with great jabs, and cautious styles.

 

Norton in no way fought the prime Ali. Norton fought the comebacking Ali after the period in which he was not allowed to fight. Ali never got to have his prime. He was on the way up when they banned him, and was on the way down when they let him fight again.

If Norton of the first Ali-Norton fight had fought the mythical 1969 version of Ali, he wouldn't have laid too many gloves on him.

 

He had his hands full with Doug Jones and George Chuvalo so it is not exactly a stretch to suggest that Marciano could beat him on a given day.

Ali himself thought that Marciano would have given him more trouble than Frazier.

 

Can anyone who chose Louis explain to me his reasoning for doing so?