Who beats Johnson below 185?

We don't know what Johnson weighed for either the Griffin or the Choynski fights Pollack estimates he weighed around the same as Choynski for their fight which would put him at around 170lbs Likewise Klondike and Griffin.
Neither do we know what they weighed.
For the thousandth time Johnson was not tko'd in an exhibiton match with Smith, it was a spar,therefore no decision was rendered, and there was no referee.
Seriously, try and make NY in July!

 

So Tyson didn't get tkod by Page in an exhibition neither?

 

No he didn't! Its an impossibility because it was, SPARRING.

Just as when Toxie Hall dropped Marciano ,
Raphael Butler and Travis Walker dropped Vitali Klitschko.It was during SPARRING.
No decisions are given during SPARRING.

Here take a lookatsch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS91f_zMwcM

 

Ok been thinking about this.

If we're draining Johnson to 185 come fight night the possibilities are fairly numerous. Draining might be the wrong word, but I feel he was definitely more effective time with the extra weight.

But allow Johnson to weigh 190-210 and an opponent weighing 185 will be severely disadvantaged.

Holyfield, Marciano and Dempsey have the best bet. I struggle to see Johnson being out boxed by a smaller man, especially the post 1904 version.

But Hart was able to take a decision based on aggression although most reports suggest Johnson landed the cleaner more telling punches. Would that be the same had he been facing the 3 mentioned? I'm not sure.

I think those 3 would beat him, but the next size down of greats, the likes of Charles, Moore, Tunney, Patterson etc, how will they beat Johnson?

 

Learn to read. The title of the thread is Who beats Johnson below 185?

So you see, it's not about Johnson's weight at all. DUH. Griffin was 185 or below. Reports said he looked lime a famine survivor, yet he beat and Drew with Johnson Johnson could not win one match in three.

I don't care if Smith, who was green, and Johnson who was in his prime was an exhibition match. They were in the ring with Gloves, and Smith clocked him.:deal

If Johnson wanted to erase this dubious result in 1909, he gives Smtih a title match. For a while, Smith could be viewed as the #1 or #2 contender, and it's a fact Smith beat men who Johnson actually gave title matches too. To quote one of the books you like to reference " and he never forgot it " Smith on the day he TKO'd Johnson.

 

I know what the threads about hence my ironical emoticon in my first post[:hey]Go back and look, Mr Thicko!
Smith tko'd no one ,it's an impossibility in a sparring match as anyone who has boxed knows. The lies keep coming

 

LOL in your face. Are you suggesting Choynski was 185 or higher when he fought Johnson?

Why did you feel the need to guestimate Johnson's weight? The thread has NOTHING to do with that.

Outside of lies, and bad acumen on boxing, my favorite thing is when you try to switch topics or add off tangent info, not about the thread.

Facts: Johnson was beaten by men 185 pound or below, more than once.

 

nothing to base this on only my imagination from what i read.

greb perhaps ?

if philadelphia jack o brien could take johnson to a supposed debated fight...different reports give it to either one of them by a margin....and i've at least seen footage of o'brien...when he fought johnson he was near end of career...when i seen footage of him vs burns he looked like a mike mctigue type...backed off and and very defensive looking...and he would have been well under 185...maybe a middleweight vs johnson.

 

I've already given Pollack's estimate of Choynski's weight against Johnson , get someone to explain it to you.

 

The press estimated that O Brien weighed in the region of 172lbs for the Johnson no decision bout.
It should be noted that it was only a six rounder.Jim Jeffries when he heard the result said O Brien was capable of giving anyone a tough go over 6 rounds.

 

ok. fair enough.

when greb spoke about going against dempsey he said he was confident of beating him in under 10 rounds i think it was (i'd have to spend time searching for the exact quote)...hinting he was maybe worried about a long fight with a big man as good as that.....so maybe a short fight v johnson all things considered i'd pick him i think....over a longer distance, greb himself makes me pause.

 

Greb , over a short distance could embarrass just about anybody
Including a languid counterpuncher like Johnson.

 

LOL, anything to add a pound or two more to make Johnson look better. We know how you operate. Box rec said 162.5.

O'brien who started boxing in 1896 and fought often was already past his best when the fight happened in 1909. From 1909-1910, Obrien lost twice to Ketchel and Kaufman.

His prime was more around 1900-1905 when he beat Kaufman, Fitz, Hart, Maher and others, and drew with Burns

1909-05-19 : Jack Johnson 205 lbs drew with Philadelphia Jack O'Brien 162½ lbs by NWS in round 6 of 6

Location: National A.C., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
Referee: Jack McGuigan
World Heavyweight Championship (1st defense by Johnson)

Wire reports in multiple newspapers, including the San Francisco Call, had the bout a draw. The New York Times also had it a draw.
The New York Sun, Wilkes-Barre Times Leader, and Washington Herald had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even and the fifth round to Johnson.

The Trenton Times reported that the referee stated that he thought O'Brien was the winner by a shade.

The Philadelphia Inquirer, which scored the bout for Johnson, reported: "Three or four times during the mix-ups, O'Brien was roughed to the floor, and once he got tangled in the ropes."

The sports editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer wrote in the May 23 edition: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won at any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap."

The Stevens Point Daily Journal reported: "Jack Johnson, the big colored heavyweight champion, failed to win over Jack O'Brien, the Philadelphia light heavyweight, in a six-round bout. The fight was even and the consensus of opinion was that it should have been a draw, had a decision been permissible. O'Brien's marvelously fast footwork and his superior blocking saved him from damage in several close mixes, and three times he was forced to his knees by the great strength and weight of Johnson in the clinches. It was a fast fight, O'Brien doing the greater part of the leading. Johnson was slow on his feet, and appeared not to be in the best condition. Repeatedly, the champion rushed his smaller antagonist, but seldom landed effectively. A right-hand counter in the fifth round cut O'Brien's right eye, and this was the sum total of the damage done in the six rounds. Johnson had nothing to say after the bout except that he thought he had the better of it. O'Brien was enthusiastic over his showing. He said he had accepted a proposal to meet Al Kaufman in San Francisco in the near future."
All in all, it appears this bout was a draw.

 

Box rec has no idea what O Brien weighed for the no decision bout because neither he nor Johnson weighed in for it.If you had read the excellently researched 2 Johnson biographies by Adam Pollack[as I have done ,]you would know this.But you continue talking from ignorance and racial bigotry,it's what you do.

 

Where are those reporter names? LOL. Owing a book from Adam isn't helping you much.