Who Believes That Foreman Was Drugged In Zaire?

I believe it to be very likely that Foreman was drugged, or certainly had been sabotaged in some way. I simply cannot see how Ali would have been good enough to beat a superior boxer like George Foreman, especially at that stage in his career.

 

Actually, he does. Recently he released a book and he still thought something was wrong with the bottles, some unknown Muslims entered his dressing room, etc.

 

Well, the difference is that there is no clear video evidence of Oswald shooting Kennedey. But from the film of the fight in Zaire it's clear to say that Foreman was sharp and alert from the beginning and only started to fade when he had thrown dozens of bombs in that humid heat without doing any real damage. That a guy who never had great stamina starts to tire at this point is not strange by any means.

He looked gone against Young as well, was that also because of foul play?

 

Everyone's just shitted all over your theory.

 

It was a clean stoppage. Foreman was rattled by a three punch combination coming off the ropes, collapsed, and never beat the count. How clean? Clean enough for no arguements as he was knocked out. I've seen other heavyweights get sparked by a single blow and their as good as out before hitting the canvas. Foreman in Zaire wasn't as bad obviously, but it was clean.

Absolutley not. However, many fighters would have a good case for staying on their feet during the first couple of rounds with the exact same type of punches which KO'd them during the mid-late rounds. Although that depends how high paced a certain fight is and the quality of chin combined with recovery powers. Foreman was tired and had put a lot of effort into taking Ali out. I also take into consideration the conditions. But as I have stated before, thats part and parcial of the game.

Mind of Barry McGuigan against Steve Cruz in Vegas on the undercard of Hearns-Medal? Well he wasn't use to the heat, that for sure. He went 15 rounds in tempratures reaching 120 degrees. While his workrate was more resourceful and smarter than Foreman's in Zaire, he was probably taking more in return. He was floored two or three times during the closing stages, yet lasted the distance. Can you honestly say that Foreman was taking a beating for 8 rounds? He was smacked with right hand leads during the opening round. As the rounds ticked by sometimes Ali sagged into the ropes heavily to create distance, landing 1-2's up the middle, and tying-up Foreman at close quarters. Foreman was dishing out much more than he was taking, and yes I fully understand that saps energy.

But your arguement is that Foreman was beaten exclusively by 'exhaustion'. His chin never let him down by an means? I happen to think it was a combination of factors but the punches count the most. Thats how he landed on his ass.

 

Me neither.

 

The truth is out there Mulder!

 

Relegation.

 

It's no joke.

 

I'll come back to this - but the chin rankings i need too. Especially Norton and Frazier.

Nobody ever said it was 100% exhaustion, but let me say the exhaustion had more overall effect than the punch which i will deepen later. The retalitory punches Foreman had taken were not the draining type hard punches that leads to a later KO. Good punches but not overly accumulative.

 

I'll give you the chin rankings. Leave it on the 'exhaustion' old ground we are going over. I should never have fooled around. Not that I'm scared of a debate. It was done months ago. Lets move on.

 

People like to claim that Ali had no real skill, just fantastic physical assets, but has any HW showed more skill than Ali did in Zaire? There tend to be more focus on his ring smarts and courage - both of which were huge - than on the immense skill it took to pull it off.

 

JT. Here is the rating of the chins. Your obviously looking to pick me apart on this one. I've put some thought into it. How many times each was knocked down? Did they get up to win? Were they past their primes by a considerable margin if they had been stopped? I'm taking all that into consideration.

Norton 7
Frazier 8
Foreman 8.5
Ali 8.5.

I changed by score on Foreman after further research on his record.