Who can beat Vitali K H2H all time?

Muhammad Ali, maybe Lennox Lewis. Not many fighters in the history of boxing could deal with either Klitschko. The skilled size of these men is a tall order, no pun intended.

 

No way there is "more talent" in the hw division today unless there are some little known super talented HWs hiding somewhere. The division for nearly 10 years has been a joke outside of lewis (briefly) and the klits. The guys you mentioned: byrd, ruiz, brewster, and rahman (of let's say 2005) prove my point. these guys wouldn't be on the radar in any other era (though younger rahman would be) including the 80's. byrd was skilled but was only relevant b/c the division was lacking in fit, skilled hw's and his total non existent punch would doom him vs most any contenders from other eras. ruiz is one of the worst titlists in history and is uttlerly average in all categories except determination and holding. brewster was decent w/ some power (for about 3 fights) but but for wlad short circuiting in a bizarre fight we would barely talk about him now let alone against guys from other eras. Rahman shone pretty bright in the very early 2000's but turned into a plodder pretty soon and was nothing special for much of the past 7 or 8 years.

Face it, it's been a wasteland of "talent" behind the klits for a long time

 

Actually, your reading comprehension is flawed. I said that Jack Johnson had more skill than both Klits combined. Which might be an overstatement, but honestly is not that ridiculous to suggest. Johnson was probably the best fighter all around in terms of actual skills the HW division has ever seen. He had a great complete defense that was a combination movement, catching and parrying, and countering that is pretty rare in the HW division. He also had a great inside game and was a good body puncher as well(something the Klitschkos cannot do). I also said that he had athletic talent comparable to Ali(which is true), and that is no way a dig at the Klitschkos.

You might rank Vitali and Wlad that high, but I choose not to, based mostly on the quality of their competition placed. I would have Wlad probably ranked somewhere 15-25 maybe. There are no "facts" in comparing boxing careers, only subjective opinions backed on individual arguments.

Yep.

 

I agree with this part of your post.
However, the part about nutrition, equipment, training, etc. I do not, and have already commented on.
Yesterday's NATURAL foods were much more nutritous and wholesome then today's genetically modified crap.
However, in the end, I believe the work rate and activity level of yesterday's fighters kept them in much better fighting shape then today's overpaid fighters.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrmj6eAFGc&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZdSNB93Mo&feature=related[/ame]

 

I am NOT a fan of either Klit, but I have seen pretty much all of their fights that are on tape and have always been in awe of them and as much as I do not like either, I still think h2h they would fare very well against the All-time crew.

No doubt this era of heavy's is lacking in star power and overall talent, but I think the "golden years" are also overrated because the fighters matched up so well against each other, unlike today. There are fighters today that are bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled than they were in the past whether people want to admit it or not, but there is a bigger disparity now than there was in overall ability, but not as much as many claim.

 

For me its simple.
When Ali fought Foreman in the Jungle the whole world watched... I have no idea about hard statistics but it might be one of the most watched sporting events of all time..
These guys were elite athletes and sportsmen who transcended sports in so many ways. Boxing was top of the sporting hill. The heavyweight champion of the world was probably the top athlete on the planet. Thats probably why so many great heavyweight came along in that time period... everyone wanted it.
Today maybe those same athletes would become basketball players or play soccer or MMA or whatever...

 

And now think what Dempsey did to Willard ... he would do the same to Vitali.

 

Ali was that good. His talent level, speed and athleticism would have been too much for many fighters that fought decades after his own time. Put it this way when you have guys like Adamek moving up in weight and beating what is perceived to be on of the best Heavyweights in Chris Areola then there is a good chance Ali on his unorthodox technique and uncanny speed would humilate lots of fighters.

First off the 80s was one of the best decades in boxing.

Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
Tim Witherspoon
Michael Dokes
Pinklon Thomas
Tyrell Biggs
Tony Tucker
John Tate
Mike Weaver
Frank Bruno
Gerrie Coetzee
Tony Tubbs
Trevor Berbick
Buster Douglas
Bonecrusher Smith
Carl Williams
Gerry Cooney
Michael Spinks
Tex Cobb
Greg Page

From the 00s on you can't find 20 names in the HW division that will match the depth of the 80s.

Politics were always in boxing. This is nothing new, from Jack Johnson to Wladimir Klitschko boxing politics were always there and always will be there. Mike Tyson had an easier time because he was very good and very popular and properly marketed. The Iron Curtian was still up during Tyson's reign, even if it came Tyson would still be champ.


As for who beats Vitaly?

Favorite:
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
Ike Ibeabuchi
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Evander Holyfield

50/50
Joe Louis
Sonny Liston
Jack Dempsey

 

Yes, it was but not for hws. The crop than wasn´t much better than todays.

 

It's funny that people think size would impede dempsey when the thing the man was renowned for was giant-slaying...

Yeah it was. Today's crop is ****ing awful, look at the HW top ten! You know things are ****ed up when someone like Valuev can hold a belt for as long as he did.

 

Well, was it better back then? When guys like tex Cobb and Marvis Frazier were legitimate contenders? I say no. It was nearly as awful back then. But the guys who were kids or youth back then and were in awe of Tyson are grown ups now who post here. Like ironchamp up there.
I liked Tyson back then. He looked awesome. And he is definitly an atg. Top15/borderline Top10 at hw. But he ruled over a group of fighter which is not much better than todays. He basically did the same Wlad did, he just looked much better in doing so.

 

It was a little better. I'll take buster, spinks, tyson, ruddock, and bowe over pretty much any of the heavies today apart from the k-bros for the most part. Tyson could have been a top 10 heavy if he didn't **** up his legacy fights so bad.

 

Nhl fighters: Garry Howatt
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/10867

Georges Laraque
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/110

 

Douglas? No way. He lost to Jesse Ferguson for gods sake.
Spinks would be a top guy definitly but so would Povetkin or Chagaev have been in the 80s.
Ruddock is an interesting case but I consider him more an 90s than an 80s man.
Bowe is clearly 90s, not 80s.

Tyson would be number one today. Stylewise Wlad is made for him. And Vitali .... watch Dempsey-Willard for this. On the other hand Wlad would dominate the 80s as unspectacular as he does it today.