Who could beat RJJ at 168 and 175?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Aug 7, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Bad? No. But the unexpected shot he got hit with by Tarver says a lot. Jones was super-quick and most of the clean shots he gets hit with he is rolling, moving, ducking, blocking with the punch, you know?

    Of course he gets hit withoug going down, but here he's being put in with some of the best puncher's who have ever lived - Foster for Christ sake, would brain a bull.
     
    McGrain, Aug 7, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 7, 2008
    #46
  2. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I understand what you mean but prime jones wasn't ever really knokced out or hurt so it is very hard to judge his chin on the ko's he had.
     
    rydersonthestorm, Aug 7, 2008
    rydersonthestorm, Aug 7, 2008
    #47
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Here is how I see it -

    Peak Jones has a largely untested chin.

    Post-peak JOnes has a poor chin.

    This leads me to believe that serious punchers who could find ways to land would beat him. I don't insist upon it - I am explaining where my money would go in the event the super-fight came off.
     
    McGrain, Aug 7, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 7, 2008
    #48
  4. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I tend to think jones has little chance againt spinks who is all wrong for jones but anyone else i think he does at least have a 50/50 shot with.
     
    rydersonthestorm, Aug 7, 2008
    rydersonthestorm, Aug 7, 2008
    #49
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Your opinion of his chin?
     
    McGrain, Aug 7, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 7, 2008
    #50
  6. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Why are people alway go on about these fights. Yeah, Toney and Hopkins are big names but the versions Jones beat weren´t great fighters. I´m getting tired of this matter.

    Well, most are already mentioned and i agree with most picks but wanted to add that imo Tarver always has a very good chance of beating Jones. He knew him from the amateurs and has beaten him there. He just went pro to repeat this feat. He went pro and trained only to beat RJJ. All of his style and game was build to beat RJJ. He knows him more than Jones knows himself.

    Another guy i would pick to beat Jones would be Michael Moorer. Fast delivered straight punches with loads of power would spell big trouble for Jones.
     
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    #51
  7. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    I agree with you. The thing with 168 is, do we only count the fighters who fought there from the 80s on or do we also count the fighters who fought in other weightclasses but weighed in or at 168.
     
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    #52
  8. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Jones didn´t fight one great fighter when he was in his prime. He´s unproven against great fighters. Why do you think somebody who never proved that he could hang in there with great fighters like Moore would be able to beat them? Because he looked spectacular beating inferior opposition? I don´t say he doesn´t have a chance, he has the talent but i wouldn´t favour him. And no the Toney and the Hopkins he faced weren´t great.
     
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    #53
  9. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Yes he was but he wasn´t in his prime against Jones so you can´t count that.
     
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    #54
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hopkins was 28, older than Jones with more fights, when they met. His very best was perhaps yet to come, but he was still a very respected fighter. In this fight Jones was actually weight drained, which showed in the later rounds.

    Toney was seen as one of the best p4p when Jones met him. I don't see why he would be less prepared than usual for this fight. He always had to work hard to make weight, nothing new there. And he showed flashes of speed when (unsuccesfully) leaping at Jones at times. Jones, just like a prime Ali, was because of his speed and unorthodox moves very good at making opponents look slow and ineffectual, as evident against Hopkins for example. I think that was the main reason why Toney appeared somewhat sluggish.

    When a seasoned pro is said to be poorly prepared after being clearly beaten in a title fight by an opponent he had every reason to take very seriously, I always smell a lot of poor excuses. This is definitely not an exception.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 8, 2008
    Bokaj, Aug 8, 2008
    #55
  11. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    I explained this more than one time and i´m tired of it. The last time i dod so was yesterday somewhere in the general forum. If you want an explanation look it up. I hate to repeat myself again and again and again just because some people can´t be objective.
    Both wins were good wins but not great ones because neither Hopkins nor Toney were great fighters when Jones fought them while Jones was. These wins aren´t better than Jones win over McCallum for example. It looks pretty good when you look it up on paper but if you dig deeper it doesn´t look that good anymore.
     
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    #56
  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, I just don't agree entirely, for reasons I already stated. And I feel pretty objective since I'm no Jones fan. I am allergic to important victories being diminished by excuses, though. It might be SRL:s victories against Duran, Hearns, and Hagler; Douglas's against Tyson; or Ali's against Liston and Foreman. I just plain don't like it.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 8, 2008
    Bokaj, Aug 8, 2008
    #57
  13. TIGEREDGE

    TIGEREDGE Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I beilieve that Jones Jnr could beat everyone in the history of these weights. but he could be beat

    Charles is the only guy who I would favour greatly
     
    TIGEREDGE, Aug 8, 2008
    TIGEREDGE, Aug 8, 2008
    #58
  14. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    That aren´t excuses that´s just taking everything into account. Or do you count Holmes win over Ali as high as Frazier´s over Ali?
     
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    Loewe, Aug 8, 2008
    #59
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The difference is that Ali had generally been seen as way over the hill (even if few knew exactly just how shot he was) years before facing Holmes. His own doctor had quit in protest long before since he felt that Ali had no business being in the ring. The owner of Madison Square Garden said already after the Shaver's fight in 1977 that Ali wouldn't be allowed to fight there anymore since it was really time for him to retire.

    The ones I named were all very highly regarded at the time of those fights. Liston, Foreman and Tyson was generally considered to be invincible. That's quite a difference.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 8, 2008
    Bokaj, Aug 8, 2008
    #60
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