Who deserves more credit for beating holmes? Tyson or Holyfield?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I am of the belief that the only men to ever score unavenged victories over holmes were tyson and holyfiled (i've not seen the spoon fight so this opinion could change one day).

    Obviously spinks in the first fight gets the most credit and that can't really be argued.

    But after that fight I think his only losses were to these two heavies, so who gets the nod?

    Holmes v Tyson 1988.

    pro's, tyson was the only man to truly destroy larry holmes, i don't care what larry says about his hand gettuing stuck in the rope, he got brutalised that night.

    con's, holmes was coming out of retirement and soon ran back into retirement.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxFcFCUAnW4[/ame]

    Holmes v Holyfield 1992.

    pro's, holmes was in the middle of a good run here with victories on my cards over mercer, ribalta, ferguson and mccall.

    con's, this is about 10 years past holmes' prime.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41WQf6u46D4&feature=related[/ame]

    I don't think these two get the credit they deserve, truth be told and to put into context I think both victories far eclipse larry's own over ali.

    But anyways, who gets more credit here? tyson or holyfield? vote and discuss!
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    #1
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I voted Tyson because he got there first and I think Larry beat Spinks in the rematch.

    Noone beofre or since could to larry what mike did that night.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    #2
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tyson, Holmes was younger and Mike destroyed him, he was preparing for Tyson for a while and this has been proven with interview footage before he had signed to fight, so don't buy the 'Holmes was on short notice excuse. Legit win for Evander too
     
    PowerPuncher, Aug 7, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Aug 7, 2011
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The more I think of how finished mike made holmes look, the more i'm amazed at larry's success in the 90's and then the more amazed I am at how dominant tyson was against holmes in 88 and the cycle continues haha, if I give it enough thought I might just make these two my top two heavyweights!

    Yeah I think larry definitely earned top contender status in the 90's so it's a legitimate victory for both parties, but considering the circumstances I have to go with mike.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    #4
  5. crippet

    crippet Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holmes went 2 years without a fight then straight in with Tyson - course he would look bad - That Holmes would NOT have baeten Ray Mercer !! Holmes had no chance, full of ring rust

    Now Holmes against Holyfield - 6 warm up fights including a 12 round dec over Mercer - was much more dangerous prospect and would have given Tyson fits.
    He did better against a prime Holyfield than Tyson did.

    The Holyfield victory is beyond a shadow of doubt much more impressive
     
    crippet, Aug 7, 2011
    crippet, Aug 7, 2011
    #5
  6. Primadonna Kool

    Primadonna Kool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Larry Holmes would probably state, and i think he has stated that he was in better all round shape technically against Evander Holyfield.
     
    Primadonna Kool, Aug 7, 2011
    Primadonna Kool, Aug 7, 2011
    #6
  7. crippet

    crippet Well-Known Member Full Member

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    When fighters take time out - they need matches to get rid of ring rust - why do you think Tyson returned with a fight with McNeely and not a world title fight

    Ali needed a couple of fights before tackling Frazier and even then he was still a touch rusty.

    A Fairer question would be = who would win between Tyson [of the McNeely fight] Vs Holmes [of the Tyson fight]
     
    crippet, Aug 7, 2011
    crippet, Aug 7, 2011
    #7
  8. RoosterC

    RoosterC Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Neither, Holmes was fat, retired and way past his prime.
     
    RoosterC, Aug 7, 2011
    RoosterC, Aug 7, 2011
    #8
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Why would you think mercer would have beaten that version of larry?
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    #9
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    neither fought the real larry holmes. Holyfeild fought a Holmes who was winning and earned his shot. Tyson faced a younger guy who could have been much beter but was hindered with inactivity and had doubt in his mind. So holyfeild beat a better holmes.
     
    choklab, Aug 7, 2011
    choklab, Aug 7, 2011
    #10
  11. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    I pick Tyson's win beacause of the KO... However, I do think Holmes was better prepared for Holyfield despite being a little bit older.

    Holmes had not won since his close win over Carl Willimas in '85. He lost to Spinks in '85 and '86. He retired after Spinks and then fought a prime Tyson in '88. Holmes wasn't very hungry at this point.

    When Holmes fought Holyfield he had won 6 fights in a row including a clear decision over a previously undefeated Ray Mercer... who had stopped a previously undefeated Tommy Morrison in 5 rounds.
     
    Hookie, Aug 7, 2011
    Hookie, Aug 7, 2011
    #11
  12. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    He made a record while training for Tyson... I'm not so sure he took Tyson very seriously, dumb move though!
     
    Hookie, Aug 7, 2011
    Hookie, Aug 7, 2011
    #12
  13. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Tyson most definitely. Cayton and Jacobs had been lining up a Tyson-Holmes fight since 1986, so Holmes knew he was in line to face Tyson for those 2 years.

    I don't care how many fights you have against the Doc Andersons and Eddie Gonzales' of this world...being 4 years older at the age of 42 does not make you a better or sharper fighter.

    Of course Holmes took the Tyson fight seriously. We all know how much Holmes wants to keep his legacy intact. He's not going to be jumping without a parachute against a young monster like Tyson.
     
    Sangria, Aug 7, 2011
    Sangria, Aug 7, 2011
    #13
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    How did you score the spinks rematch?
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 7, 2011
    #14
  15. crippet

    crippet Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Because Holmes 1988 had been inactive for 2 years and was riddles with ring rust.

    Let me ask you a question or 2

    Do you think the version of tyson V McNeely was better than the Tyson in Bruno 2?

    Do you think boxers improve with warm up fights or can they reach a fighting fit level by just training and sparring, making walm up fights irellevant?
     
    crippet, Aug 7, 2011
    crippet, Aug 7, 2011
    #15
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