Who did Holmes duck?

I think once Tyson lost Cus and the crew of guys Cus built around them his mentality dwindled, add that to King & co gaining control of Tyson's mindset and recent admittance of drug use by Tyson that Tyson was at a low and he could have lost to anyone...Williams had power & got off the floor to battle back, Holmes had heart but also had a weakness to getting hit with right hands (hard for me to envision him beating Tyson (bad style for him IMO).

Listen Larry Holmes got KO'd 2 X at the height of his amateur career by 5"11 Nick Wells and I mean taken out on a stretcher so it would not be hard for me to see Marciano doing it, Tyson did it as well.....Bone-crusher Smith had 14 fights and he only won 1 of his next 5 fights after Holmes in fact he only won 5 of his next 13 fights so please stop making these guys out to be monsters with your revisionist antics, I can see you were too young to really know the era and you have selected retaining ability when it comes to facts. Witherspoon was lucky to eke out a few split decision and never impressed me with his motivation ,these guys were green and yet were doing very well against Holmes, Smith got shaky when a cut appeared after a thumb in the eye and many felt Witherspoon beat Holmes but still NO REMATCH from LARRY...still these guys were good fighters not great fighters and a great fighter like Marciano's & pace would be too much for them IMO

Holmes was protected and navigated around guys that were a threat, this is a fact, he made a mistake fighting the 18-9 Weaver ( yea, I heard he had a flu) but Holmes was rocked several times but Weaver also had almost 3 years of big wins and won a title so this was a fight Weaver wanted but not Holmes. and the list goes on Tate,Coetzee, Dokes,Thomas,Williams,Witherspoon,Norton and others. Holmes fought easier guys like 13 fight Ocasio,10 fight Marvis,10-2-2 Spinks (who was already KO'd in 1 rd by Coetzee almost 2 yrs before) 14 fight Smith and Bey who only won 4 of his next 16 fights after Holmes, Scott Frank,Leroy Jones,Lorenzo Zanon,Alfredo Evangelista,Randall Cobb, so look at this list of defenses and tell me what you don't understand about Holmes picking the weaker opponents and avoiding the hardest....and Holmes rise to the title was also navigated and paid for (KING $$$ John Ort) FACT & Holmes gave up a title not to fight Greg Page (Red Flag)

you dont have to respect my opinion but you heard it also from some very smart and knowledgeable guys like Mongoose who lived the era and McGrain (an excellent writer and historian) I look closely when these guys have an opinion because they are serious posters. I dont always agree but I take heed to what they have to say.

You want things to be a certain way He-grant & avoid the facts and are biased opinionated and pick and chose facts. Holmes toughest pick for defenses were Shavers who he easily beat already and Gerry Cooney (who never fought past 8 rds and had not fought more than 2 rds in over 2 yrs)

Unfortunately some of perceived easier wins where scares for Holmes Weaver (surprise) Snipes (Surprise) Shavers, Williams,Witherspoon but it does not take away from the fact that there were tougher fights out there, top contenders & co-champs and rematches =Norton,Weaver,Williams,Witherspoon that were never made....so put on your rose-colored glasses He Grant and call it what you want

 

The Tony Anthony fight did not make Weaver look like a good contender what ever way you look at it. he was hurt bad by a ham and egger. Before the foul mike was walking like a man riding a bucking Bronco. Nobody was screaming about weaver still being a major player at world level after that win. In fact it looked like the exciting Weaver could be an accident waiting to happen.

We don't say Golota knocked out Bowe, but it was as good as. The record says DQ win for Bowe but however insecure/stupid Golota was to keep fouling bowe, the bottom line was Bowe looked out of his depth at that level. It was clear.

 

Uncalled for. Utter nonsense.

This debate is about the worth of Holmes era as much as it is about whom he ducked.

Whilst I don't think there was anyone worth avoiding and the case for those Holmes missed out being boosted is silly (because most contenders were no better than the other) there is no reason or call to bring marciano into it. Different discussion.

Smith and WIlliams? Marvis Frazier and shakey old weaver beat those two. so could Any champion, not just but including Marciano.

 

Thank you for setting the rules of the forum .. perhaps you'll see that threads tend to cross over as many of the same participants play in them .. BTW, Weaver was iced by Bonecrusher in a round once and lost a wide decision a second time .. I also did not mention the other two although since you did I'll say with would beat LaStarza or ****ell .. :good

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Bummy, your becoming a redundant, boring, last word freak. Kind of like a Mongoose light. atsch Not to mention wordy. Lot's of free time I guess ... I'd really rather hear you tell us again how great Tate was in the Olympics ...

 

Who other than Bummy is praising Weaver as any sort of serious champion .. the guy was always suspectable to the early KO, the man was stopped twelve times in his career and for the most part seriously beaten ... he was a murderous puncher and had a few good moments ( beating Tate by a fluke and the limited Coetzee) and certainly put up a tremendous fight against a sick Holmes but seriously, he was not any great fighter ... BTW, Holmes eventually did rematch him and not only beat him easily but iced him to boot ..

 

we will never know how good Holmes was we can only guess because the guys he avoided had more than 10-16 fights and he usually did not fight guys outside of that range unless he stepped up occasionally to a guy with 20 or so fights....If Weaver was susceptible and had Holmes wobbly several times and afraid to rematch him....How come Larry was Leary to fight him and the others...Leary Larry

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH619vxtNdo

 

He Grant I know you like things to be perfect in the fantasy's of your mind...facts do not have a place there ...I hope you are writing fiction novels

 

Cut to the :37 sec mark for Bummy's next redundant reply ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqtNxNRCcGg

 

I have to do that with you because your brain repels facts...you will make a great fiction writer but stay clear of the facts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p8IuJiKwb4

 

Nobody? I already produced an article from the usually reliable Sports Illustrated magazine of the time that says otherwise.


But it was the first time he had ever been knocked out by a single punch. For Thomas it was knockout No. 21, and it established him as the next legitimate opponent for Larry Holmes. But this is boxing, and Holmes, who is chasing Rocky Marciano's record of 49 successful title defenses, has said he wants no part of Thomas. That was before the Weaver fight.

 

But Holmes did eventually fight Weaver again and once again he knocked him out .. now of course the Holmes revisionists will say Weaver was old, leaving out Holmes was close to three years older but they never have hard fact, just justifications and weak excuses ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbtGfx_dTKE

 

Your right , cant't grasp hw terrific Tate's Olympic showing was .. tell us about that again ?