Who did Ike Ibeabuchi knockout?

All-time head to head / Legacy mix - Total title defenses: Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Louis, Wlad. See that wasn't hard at all.

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I disagree with the above. As for Lewis legacy and how much the Byrd or Ruiz fight would have added ( assuming Lewis won ) consider this.

1 ) To add to a legacy beating a top ten opponent matters. Byrd was ranked as high as #1, Ruiz #2 from 2000-2004 by Ring Magazine Annual Ratings.

2 ) Beating a former world titleholder matters. They both Byrd and Ruiz held world title belts.

3 ) Beating them in their prime matters. They were in their prime in the late 1990's to early 2000's.

Do you disagree on any of the above?

Lewis could have fought Byrd or Ruiz. We know this, and we know how they were avoided and the penalties for doing so ( Dropping a belt )

Some other facts to chew on:

Byrd beat Holyfield by a larger margin than Lewis did! Byrd's quality of opposite fought is excellent, perhaps even greater than Lewis. Lewis could have proved how he would have dealt with a SouthPaw had he taken this fight.

Ruiz beat Rhaman, who as we know Ko'd Lennox Lewis, and also has a win over Holyfield.

Now Machine Man, time for honesty. Don't you think fighting either would have added to Lennox's legacy, not by a minuscule margin mind you?

Yes, Lewis beat a very washed up Tyson and Holyfield past his best. Vitali Klitschko is Lewis likely best pure win, and speaking of legacies had Lewis honored what he said and taken the rematch and won, that would probably be his best win as he won on cuts, down 4-2 on all cards and was gassing in the 1st fight.

 

Deal with this in another thread, please.

 

DUCK DUCK DUCK. Its in this thread. You said Lewis beating Byrd or Ruiz would add very little to his resume. Let me quote you correctly

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I just spelled it for you, listed facts and asked to you agree or disagree with them. The weakest point of debate is shutting down. Suddenly you're doing it.

One more chance:

@ Man_Machine

All-time head to head / Legacy mix - Total title defenses: Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Louis, Wlad. See that wasn't hard at all. You asked, I replied.

As for Lewis legacy and how much the Byrd or Ruiz fight would have added ( assuming Lewis won ) consider this.

1 ) To add to a legacy beating a top ten opponent matters. Byrd was ranked as high as #1, Ruiz #2 from 2000-2004 by Ring Magazine Annual Ratings.

2 ) Beating a former world titleholder matters. They both Byrd and Ruiz held world title belts.

3 ) Beating them in their prime matters. They were in their prime in the late 1990's to early 2000's.

Do you disagree on any of the above?


Lewis could have fought Byrd or Ruiz. We know this, and we know how they were avoided and the penalties for doing so ( Dropping a belt )

Some other facts to chew on:

Byrd beat Holyfield by a larger margin than Lewis did! Byrd's quality of opposite fought is excellent, perhaps even greater than Lewis. Lewis could have proved how he would have dealt with a SouthPaw had he taken this fight.

Ruiz beat Rhaman, who as we know Ko'd Lennox Lewis, and also has a win over Holyfield.

Now Machine Man, time for honesty. Don't you think fighting either would have added to Lennox's legacy, not by a minuscule margin mind you?

Yes, Lewis beat a very washed up Tyson and Holyfield past his best. Vitali Klitschko is Lewis likely best pure win, and speaking of legacies had Lewis honored what he said and taken the rematch and won, that would probably be his best win as he won on cuts, down 4-2 on all cards and was gassing in the 1st fight.

 

And still years ago on this forum you had people picking this nobody to beat Foreman hahah, despite his added mass you can see that did not have heavy hands at all he was not a pure puncher. I can see more raw power in the small 185 marciano than this guy

 

Weaker still is strawmanning and goalpost-moving, both of which you do with remarkable consistency; made all the more tragic by your genuine belief that you are being smart in doing so.

As I have maintained throughout, on this side-issue of yours, Vitali was the superior opponent for Lewis to take. He was a former titleholder; Ring-rated and in his prime, which satisfies all the items that you think matter. Get it?

More importantly, however, is the fact that Vitali hadn't been badly pasted like Byrd had been, on two occasions, by the big men of a certain level he'd faced. (Lewis would be the one to dish that out on Vitali, when they met).

If you can't see that it is the win over Vitali, which increased the stocks of Lewis and that the same over Byrd would not have made much of an impression on an already - by your own admission - Top-5 All Time position, then I really don't know what else to say to you.

In fact, I actually don't have anything left to say to you.

Good day.

 

You should have stopped by saying I have nothing relevant to say. You could not answer my questions, and ignored pretty much every point made. I've noticed a pattern. I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed.

It's a joke that you think beating Ruiz or Byrd wouldn't have added to Lewis legacy. My day was fine, thank you. How are things in the Matrix?

 

Floyd Patty cakes

 

Ike threw nice hard, sweeping combinations at times in that video montage and looked to be a dynamic puncher when he was set properly. Still, what decent sized heavy did he ever stop? Would his punches be as effective against even 2nd tier juggernauts like Shannon Briggs, Michael Grant or Jameel McCline?? Those look like some very average sized heavys in that video that Ike looked devastating against. When matched up against larger heavys I have a feeling he would have to work harder to outpoint and outhustle the bigger guys as his punching power would be less noticeable/effective. Ike was a great looking prospect but there's so many questions about his true potential. I have him 50/50 against guys like Hasim Rahman, Kirk Johnson, Oleg Maskaev, Ray Mercer, Larry Donald, John Ruiz and Andrew Golota. Ike looked devastating at times but other than Tua, he didn't have much to worry about as far as what was coming back at him. Would he let his hands go so easily against a larger and more dangerous opponent? He might find he would have to box and move more and maybe not be so effective as he was against some of the no hopers in this video.

 

I did answer your question. It's just that you either can't comprehend or you don't like the answer. Neither predicament is my problem.

What on Earth...??

I really can't help but think you've got issues.

The real joke here is that you and your agenda force you to discount a viewpoint, which differs from your own (but which is actually based on facts and a timeline; not your BS version of events), lest they face the childish indignation of Mendoza. This generally means you turning the debate into a truckload of irrelevant noise, vitriolic opinion, strawman arguments, loaded questions and ever-shifting goalposts.

Then you complain when people don't take your contributions seriously and/or dismiss them altogether. You can't even see (or, again, you just ignore) the problematic positions you create in your own arguments. Never mind...


...Byrd was ranked from 98/99 then got TKO'd by Ibeabuchi and dropped out of the ratings by the end of '99; scraped back in, to the low end of the ratings by the end of 2000, on the back of a fortunate 'W' against Vitali and a 12-round pasting from Wlad. He didn't really restore any credibility as a contender again until mid-2001, by beating Tua.

At the same time, Lewis had had his own problems to deal with... ...an immediate rematch with Rahman to get back on track and then a mission to complete. He KOs Rahman to reclaim the Titles, at which point the Tyson fight is in the offing and nothing is getting in the way of that fight happening.

Lewis beat Tyson in June 2002. What came next was the disastrous attempt to create the conditions for a credible rematch with Tyson, which can only have been about the money. This story, from the point at which Tyson activated the rematch clause; to him pulling out of their doubleheader; to Vitali Klitschko; Cedric Boswell and Kirk Johnson is available in print, like a comedy of errors.

Byrd's name was only ever mentioned within a narrow timeframe. And, he was only being talked about seriously, on account of the IBF establishing him as their mandatory challenger. But, it was too late by then.

Lewis had fought Tyson and was only interested in a big money fight, afterwards. Byrd did not qualify as a big money fight - ever - let alone when he was still fighting his way back into contention, post-Wlad (I). Vitali Klitschko had been considered the next in line for Lewis, should the Tyson rematch not materialize and Wladimir, too, was considered more seriously than was Byrd.

Even King had clearly demonstrated his lack of confidence in Byrd's chances against Lewis. But, then again, why would this be surprising? Byrd had been beaten by the toughest competitors he had faced in the division, up to that point, save Vitali. Even then, VK had been cruising to a comfortable UD win before retiring, due to injury.

Tua was the only clear success Byrd had had, since 1999 and Tua had been beaten very easily by Lewis.

I think King just wanted to promote two DKP Fighters in the same heavyweight bout, to kick off his delusional heavyweight tournament - and, Lewis wanted nothing else to do with King by this time. But, in my opinion, King couldn't have been too convinced that Lewis wouldn't take up the mandatory challenge from the IBF and Byrd. Hence the lavish offer of free money and whatever else was thrown in.

Why make such an offer? Why not either risk Byrd in an actual match or call Lewis' bluff until he to vacated the IBF strap by his own volition, thereby saving King a significant bundle? Either way, King's money was a sweetener for the inevitable. The Lewis/Byrd fight was never going to happen.


Where Ruiz is concerned (and I actually liked Ruiz), he hadn't even fought a rated opponent, at the point he'd been rather unceremoniously thrust forward as the WBAs Number-1 contender - an ancient Tony Tucker was his best win. His notoriety for a KO1 defeat, at the hands of Tua, was still fresh in the memory - and, again, Tua was someone, who Lewis had beaten soundly, without breaking a sweat.

Lewis wanted to keep the belt, but wasn't going to give up the cash value of the Grant fight just to play King's game. Thus, he was forced into making a decision. I have no problem with the decision he made.

Grant was rated highly by the Ring; was a favorite of HBO and being touted as the next big thing. Funny how all those hype merchants suddenly became fortune tellers, who had all known, from day-one, that Grant was a paper tiger.

And, do you think King was actually interested in the Lewis/Ruiz fight coming off?
He didn't seem prepared to wait for Lewis or seek an agreement outside of the courts. King went to great lengths to undermine an agreement, which had already been made between Lewis and the WBA, knowing that Lewis was tied into the Grant fight.

I think it's well within reason to suggest that King was only interested in taking the strap back under his control. Just a thought.


The sequence of events in both the case of Byrd and of Ruiz is well documented. You should know all this - and, I've been through all of it in other threads with you before, anyway.


I know you won't accept this, because you have to pitch Byrd on a pedestal - upon which he doesn't belong. Yes, a crafty southpaw he might have been but, he was limited at heavyweight, because he was a chubby light heavyweight.

He was beaten up by two out of three of the best heavyweights he faced and, if one is being honest with themselves then they will admit that Vitali had been mugging Byrd, until the injury. This, just one blessed event in a relatively charmed career, during which he benefited from more than one dubious decision.

If this is what you want to base Ibeabuchi’s fantasy ‘What if” legacy on then so be it. However, whether you want to acknowledge this or not, you have to know you’re on soft ground.

 

This is an issue of question? Really? I cannot argue with deez apples whatsoever

 

That^ is well summed up.

It kind of makes the "I've noticed a pattern" comment from him all the more hilarious, really.

 

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As I told you either Byrd or Ruiz would have added to Lewis legacy,. Rather than put you in your place and watch you try to spin out of it, I think a collection your quotes for others to read will save a lot of time. Until then Byrd beat Holyfield by a bigger margin than Lewis did and Ruiz is 1-0 vs Rhaman, while Lewis was 1-1-. Byrd beat Tua as 233 lbs. Lewis beat Tua at 245lbx, and Tua claimed a leg injury.

By all means press on.