Who Did Wlad beat to win his world titles and why is tat so important?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mark Adam, Aug 19, 2018.


  1. Mark Adam

    Mark Adam Active Member banned Full Member

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    I`m tired of all this lineal crap, who the hell did Wlad beat to win his titles in the first place, his era was crap. Does this lineal thing really mean anything?!
     
  2. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    he beat chaggy for lineal i think, not sure about that though, how chaggy got lineal is odd.

    and wbo one from byrd, but only cos vitali was crap enough to lose to him in the first place.

    picked up ibf from byrd as well. byrd in the ring was worth two belts in the hand then.

    finally got wba from haye.

    some unifications theres, gotta count for something, neaer undisputed...but it ws the undoing of him, couldnt defend at that level for long.
     
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    When Lewis retired I believe it was the general opinion that Vit was going to be seen as the next lineal champ .But shortly after he announced his retirement. Wlad then picked up the IBF belt and defended that many times. But in the meantime Vit came back and regained the WBC strap ,so confusion reigned a little. Vit called it a day in 2013 but Wlad held on til he lost to Fury .Then Fury messed things up by dropping all his belt's. But as it stands Fury to a lot of people is the undefeated lineal champ .If he were to say ,fight Wilder and lose then I guess he'd be seen as the linear champ .That's about as much sense as I can make of the linear title .
     
  4. archdeacon99

    archdeacon99 Member Full Member

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    Wlad beat Byrd for the IBF belt which Byrd gained as a vacant belt while THE real champion was still Lewis. Thereby that title was inconsequential when held by Byrd, and then Wlad.

    Vitali Klitschko beat sanders for the retired crown of Lewis as The Heavyweight champion along with the WBC belt.

    Sanders was stripped of the WBO belt for facing Vitali, So technically Vitali beat the true lineage holder of the WBO title while gaining Lewis`s WBC and Ring belts.

    Wlad fought for the vacant WBO title in a losing effort against Brewster. All Wlad gains from beating Sultan is the lineage of victory from his loss to Brewster for a vacant title.

    The true WBO lineage went with the WBC, Ring and at the time the recognition as the lineal champion for holding Lewis`s belt, Vital Klitschko
    The WBA title was from the Evander memorial Don King round robin with Ruiz which was lost to Jones then vacated then won by Toney then stripped then given back to Ruiz and onto Haye, No lineage of legacy there.

    Today these have now passed to Fury then to AJ via vacant title winning Charles Martin, vacant box off with Wlad and Parker who won his in a box off for vacant WBO. There is no lineage or championship greatness in AJ`s current standing. Beat Wilder Fury winner and at least all this fragmented lineage consolodates as far back to Klitschko as possible by gaining the supposed Lineal title he re-started.
     
  5. Momus

    Momus Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The lineal thing means as much as you want it to mean. The concept itself is used like quicksilver when it backs up an argument, while being completely ignored when it doesn't.

    Taken in line with the principle that titles should be won and lost in the ring, it provides a useful way of keeping track of who has actually beaten who in an era of alphabet buffoonery. Taken to the nth degree though, it can produce some absurd results.

    A tongue in cheek example of the latter outside of boxing is the Unofficial Football World Championships (https://www.ufwc.co.uk/results/), which applies a "man who beat the man" lineal approach to the reigning football world champions, dating back to the first international match. The Netherlands Antilles actually won the title at one point, and North Korea had a lengthy reign between 2011-13 despite not being in the top 100 of the FIFA rankings.

    If you're playing the lineal game, a bit of commonsense has to be applied at some point.

    Getting back to Wlad, he is an example of a fighter progressively building a strong claim to be regarded as the World Champion through an accumulation of results against high-ranked contenders and titlists. By the time he beat Chagaev his claim in my view was overwhelming, although you can argue that this happened either earlier (Ibragimov) or later (when Vitali retired) depending on your point of view.
     
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    TBF he beat about the best he could've, apart from his brother.

    Byrd, Chagaev, Haye, Povetkin, Pulev.

    His reign isn't as long as claimed, his WBO reignreally shouldn't be counted along side Joe Louis's, but it was still pretty impressive even if in a weak era.
     
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  7. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    And a question I'd like to ask .
    Who's seen as the rightful champ right now ?
    AJ with all his belt's or Fury with no belts ?
     
  8. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am not sure if you are right or wrong...I just have no clue what you said or meant to say?
     
  9. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Huh?
     
  10. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    IMO, Joshua is the top contender, but no one is really a champion.

    The winner of Fury-Wilder needs to fight Joshua.
     
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  11. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Hopefully in a ideal world ,that will happen.
    As for who's the champ ,in a linear way I suppose its Fury. If we go by the man who beat the man who beat ...
    Last time we had a situation like this so high profile ,was Michael Spinks being the lineal champ even though Tyson held all the belt's. Hope it works its self out like back then .
     
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  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Or Shannon Briggs-Lennox Lewis, which also sorted itself out.

    I'm sure it'll happen eventually. Putting it off for years to try and make it bigger is the done thing now.
     
  13. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Forgot that one my friend. Even though there wasn't as much of a deal made about Briggs being linear champ if memory serves me .But with Spinks v Tyson it was all about him being the man to beat .Once and for all being the catch line.
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Wlad might’ve fought his fair share of dross but he beat some really good fighters too, some of them Olympic/World medalists, some of them undefeated, some of them quality cruisers etc
     
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  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tyson Fury is the Lineal champ.

    Tyson Fury beat the Lineal champ Wlad Klitschko to claim the title. Wlad was unbeaten for 10 years. He'd beaten all reigning champs except his brother, because they wouldn't fight each other. The boxing world recognized Wlad as THE heavyweight champion of the world. Not a paper champ. He was the king.

    Tyson Fury hasn't been beaten since knocking off Wlad. That means he's the LINEAL champ. The heavyweight king.

    And he will be until someone beats him IN THE RING.

    It couldn't be any simpler.

    You beat Tyson Fury in the ring, you're the champ. You don't beat him in the ring, you aren't.
     
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