Who do rate higher P4P Canelo Alvarez or Larry Holmes?

I'm a Holmes fan but I think Canelo has a better resume but normally the notable fighters in the smaller notable weightclasses like Middleweight, Welterweight, do have better resumes on average unless your name is Muhammad Ali who is an exception because his resume is insane.

But I do think Holmes is a better H2H fighter at his best I'd rank him highly in that regard where as Canelo wouldn't be top 10 H2H in any of the weightclasses he has fought at IMO.

 

Canelo is a h2h top 10 at 168 IMO.

At 160, no, but then again, the middleweight division has had a lot more historical depth than heavyweight.

 

There aren’t ten guys at 154 who would be anything more than a coin flip.

 

Terry Norris
Thomas Hearns
ODLH
Fernando Vargas
Tito Trinidad
Mike McCallum
Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfred Benitez
Julian Jackson
Nino Benvenuti
Erisandy Lara = Who i thought was very unlucky to lose a decision debatable that Canelo is better than him H2H at 154.
Floyd Mayweather Jr = Who actually beat him 12-0.

That's 12 names and i'd make a majority of those names a favourite over Canelo.

 

168 has....

Joe Calzaghe
James Toney
Chris Eubank Jr
Nigel Benn
Michael Watson
Steve Collins
Carl Froch
Andre Ward
David Benavidez = Who Canelo actually ducked.
Frankie Liles
Michael Nunn
Mikkel Kessler

Top 10 ? i'm not sure about that if these fights are judged fairly without corrupt scoring.

 

This is laughably bad.

Vargas would definitely be an underdog. You weren’t there to watch his career unfold. He hung his chin out to dry. He was a second rate Canelo at best.

Jackson would also be an underdog. Not technical enough and Canelo tolerates one punch power without issue.

The only three who are better than a coin flip are Hearns, Leonard and Floyd. Floyd and Leonard win every time. Hearns wins most times, but the chin and stamina issues are there to give Canelo a chance.

 

Same here. In fact, I only look at what a fighter actually did, not what I hypothetically think he could do.

 

He's a good fighter but he's also had some of the most biased scorecards of any notable fighter in history. So fighters are already up against because they're fighting against the judges and Canelo there's no excuse for the scores below absolutely none.

117-111 vs Lara, 118-110 vs Golovkin, 114-114 vs Mayweather, 115-113 x3 vs Bivol, 119-108 vs Trout.

 

No i wasn't born when Vargas was actively fighting but i've seen all his notable fights and i was very impressed with his performances against Quartey, Wright. And even in his losses against Tito, ODLH, who were great fighters.

A prime Vargas vs Canelo at 154 would very close.

Jackson not technical enough ? i think actually that's one of the most underrated aspects about him he punches very precise and correct and has underrated skills.

I think Canelo was far more beatable at 154 than he was at 160 in my personal opinion.

 

Toney and RJJ beat him every time.

Calzaghe himself had a very limited resume and while i think stylistically he might just edge Canelo, i wouldn't favour him heavily.

Froch was tough but limited. Canelo is quicker hands, more offensive prowess etc. Canelo wins every time IMO.

Benn, Watson and Collins were all excellent but a notch below Canelo. Benn, for example, was limited despite his offensive brilliance. Canelo has the chin and defense to survive him and the handspeed and power to outbox him.

Ward would be favoured over Canelo but take away the headbutting and dirty play, it actually becomes a competitive fight that could be won either way.

Agree about Benavidez.

Nunn peaked at 160. The Nunn at 168 ain't beating Canelo.

Overall, i would still put Canelo top 10 h2h even if he could conceivably lose to 7-8 guys of the ones you mentioned. He could also beat several of the guys he could potentially lose to.

 

He fought Mayweather and Lara (Canelo weight) at 154. Those are two of the three best boxer movers he has faced as a pro (Bivol is the third). He completely lit up El Perro and Kirkland at 154.

The Trout fight turned into a sparring match for him due to open scoring.

 

Don't see how people see the Trout fight as close tbh thought it was a clear Canelo victory he was constantly making Trout miss and countering with hard shots even got a knockdown.