Who do rate higher P4P Canelo Alvarez or Larry Holmes?

Yeah, it’s totally stupid when people say he “arguably lost” that fight or whatever. They flashed the scores heading into that the championship rounds and he already had a win locked in. He had no reason to turn up the gas.

 

I don't think there's a consensus as such, but on the HW video of this thread, you'll note that Marciano was ranked #5 - https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/top-35-all-time-reveal-boxing-survey-series.653021/

FYI, that will be 5th greatest based on what each achieved in their own eras, rather than cross era H2H.

 

On strictly resume/achievement, I think Johnson has a good case for top 5 as well. But it's pretty stacked up there. I think Wlad is another with a case. Yes, he had some bad losses while in his physical prime, but you can't discount his 10 years of dominance. Vitaly was the best potential opponent of that time, though, and he's missing.

There are so many angles for these comparisons. Ali and Louis are alone in the top 2, though, but whom of them should be on top is certainly debatable.

 

I agree with absolutely everything here. Louis, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Marciano, Johnson, Wlad is my top 7.

I can easily see Ali ahead of Louis, but neither any lower than #2.

I'm equally on the fence with Holmes/Lewis at #3/4 and Johnson/Wlad at #6/7. Whilst I'm happy with Marciano at #5, I agree there's not much between he, Johnson and Wlad. It mostly boils down to the criteria of the individual and what you like.

 

Johnson didn't beat enough good opponents imo I'd rather have Tyson or Wlad

 

Never thought I would see the day we talk about Wladimir Kiltschko possibly being a top 5 heavyweight of all time.

 

I have him in my top 5 super dominant champ beat some very good fighters and was one of the longest reigning champs in history I don't think 3 early losses is enough to take away from that

 

Trout outlanded Canelo and threw almost twice as many punches it was definitely competitive.

I don't put much stock into what the judges score a Canelo fight because theres specifically a pattern of bad scoring in Canelo fights.

118-109 for Canelo says it all and there's many other examples.

I have no issue with Canelo edging the Trout fight based on the knockdown but it certainly was nowhere near as wide as what 2 of the judges had it.

Most outlets were 50/50 in regards to who won the fight hence it was definitely close.

Bart Barry (15 Rounds): 115-114 Alvarez

Lee Wylie (The Sweet Science): 115-112 Trout

Jake Donovan (Boxing Scene): 115-112 Alvarez

Brian Campbell (ESPN): 115-112 Trout

Adam Abramowitz (Saturday Night Boxing) 115-112 Alvarez

Mark Ortega (RingTV): 114-113 Trout

John Whisler (San Antonio Express-News): 117-110 Alvarez

Lem Satterfield (RingTV): 114-113 Trout

Michael Rosenthal (RingTV): 114-113 Alvarez

Tom Gray (Seconds Out): 114-113 Trout

Bob Velin (USA Today): 114-113 Alvarez

Tim Dahlberg (Associated Press): 114-113 Alvarez

Steve Zemach (Queensbury Rules): 114-113 Trout

Alex McClintock (Queensbury Rules): 115-112 Alvarez

Ryan Maquinana (Boxing Scene): 114-113 Trout

Dan Rafael (ESPN): 114-113 Alvarez

Steve Lillis (BoxNation): 115-114 Trout

Ryan Burton (Boxing Scene): 115-112 Alvarez

Raymond Markarian (The Sweet Science): 115-112 Trout

Paul Magno (Boxing Tribune): 114-113 Alvarez

Stephen Smith (British fighter): 115-114 Trout

 

Can one arguably lose a soccer match or basketball game?

 

You're missing the point it's not whether or not someone believes Trout won or lost it's fact he never had a chance of winning on the scorecards. Because 1 judge specifically had already made up their mind prior to the fight hence his absurd 118-109 scorecard.

 

No relation, lol.

 

He was literally fighting with a scoreboard and announcer giving official scores throughout the fight.

 

Either way Canelo won. It was a classic case of amature scorings v. pro scoring.

 

And... That still has no relation to how soccer or basketball are scored. Scores aren't debatable in games like those because their point systems aren't subjective, neither do they depend on what angle you see the fight from. What's the closest approximation soccer has to a judge scoring a tight fight lopsidedly? Certain players not getting awarded red cards?

 

Whoosh!