Who do you believe is the most OVERRATED OVERHYPED FRAUD in the history of boxing?

Calzaghe fought no greats: Not sure why Calzaghes resume comes under so much scrutiny? B-Hop was dismissed for years as not fighting greats and has only shed that rep in recent years? PBF & RJJ could have similar statements thrown their way (and have!). Calzaghe Starting in 97 Joe won the title by beating Eubank (not a prime Eubank, but certainly a good win against a very savy opponent!), holds several quality wins against good (not great) competition, and outside of Reid (who I felt merited a draw?) was not seriously tested by anyone else, an impressive feat for anyone over 20 fights and 10 years. While I don't find the lacy win as impressive as some of his fans do, no one excpected Lacy to get the one sided beating that Joe laid on him (again a very impressive feat for anyone!) Lacy scoring 1 rd in his favor (as the judges did) is about as generous as you could be. A performance like this against top caliber opposition (not ATG for sure) is about as impressive as a guy could do! His performance against kessler is equally impressive...sure Kessler has some holes in his game, but most of them were not known untill Joe exploited them, but he is a top contender in their weight class so you can't ask a whole lot more of Joe than that. and again the method of how widely he won this fight, and clearly befuddled the stronger, harder punching Kessler to the point of confusion and frustration is again impressive. Nopw many have complained that he avoided the best fights out there by not going to America (yet do not excpect Americans to travel abroad to fight???), and I ask why should he. Why can't they come to him??? I do not believe he avoided anyone (nor do I believe that he was avoided by them), unfortunately we live in an era where the best fights are not often made because of monetary agreements, and both fighters seeking as many advantages in their own favor (ie location, gloves, ring size, purse divisions etc.). So I can't fault him any more than anyone else. As his carear neared (or nears) it's end, he sought out those big fights, for paydays, and legacy that had not come to fruition even though he would now relinquish his home country advantage in terms of travel and fan support. And while I had B-Hop winning by a point, the fact remains that Joe got the decision (I don't agree, but certainly no robbery). Now everyone claims it was only a win against a 43 y/o boxer...While his age is true, and Hop's is clearly not in his prime he is still a world class fighter that is threat to anyone he fights. Good fight and a good win, by any name. I agree that RJJ clearly is not in his prime, nor even a danger at this point to most champions, and won't rate this as a great win other than for the payday they both recieved.

I am not a Joe fan, and do not find his style asthetically pleasing but to doubt that he was a potential top 5 P4P'5 lacks merit! So I don't see how that can be overhyped...other than his fanboys who call him a top 10 ATG I don't see how he is over rated as he is clearly among the best SMW of the last 10+ years...since he has not been proven to be beaten or exposed (another term I hate!) I don't see how he has been proven to be a fraud!

 

You've gotta remember bro, that after he won gold in 2000 he was hyped to high heaven in the UK ( I don't know about how he was viewed in the US, can anyone shed light on this for me ) as being the next big thing, if you read the papers or watched any sporting channel it'd seem to someone who only watched boxing fleetingly that it was only a matter of time that he took over the world. Now, don't get me wrong, anyone who knew boxing would just raise an eyebrow and say "let's wait and see" but based on on the media circus around him he managed to get an unprecedented deal with the BBC, I think he got something like 5 million viewers for his debut or something like that! Now if your looking for truly OVERHYPED, OVERRATED or FRAUDULENT, the there's no-one who comes close for the disparity of what he actually achieved to what he was supposed to achieve than Audley.

 

You've gotta remember bro, that after he won gold in 2000 he was hyped to high heaven in the UK ( I don't know about how he was viewed in the US, can anyone shed light on this for me ) as being the next big thing, if you read the papers or watched any sporting channel it'd seem to someone who only watched boxing fleetingly that it was only a matter of time that he took over the world. Now, don't get me wrong, anyone who knew boxing would just raise an eyebrow and say "let's wait and see" but based on on the media circus around him he managed to get an unprecedented deal with the BBC, I think he got something like 5 million viewers for his debut or something like that! Now if your looking for truly OVERHYPED, OVERRATED or FRAUDULENT, the there's no-one who comes close for the disparity of what he actually achieved to what he was supposed to achieve than Audley.

 

pathetic thread.

 

Pac.

 

Ricky Hatton (and unlike Calzaghe I actually like Ricky, so I will try and not let the bias be obvious! LOL). I don't know what you excpect to find in Ricky...He handled the savy vet Tszyu (who packs a nice punch), in winning the title..and in hindsight morons say Tszyu was finished (or your expresion part time great), but going into this fight although tszyu did have a layoff, no one excpected Ricky to win (a great underdog voctory). And if you watch the fight (I assume you did?) Ricky certainly roughhoused his way to a nice victory, but Tszyu still looked quite like a high caliber opponent. He beats Maussa in even more convincing fashion than Cotto (while not a great name it is a nice one), Decides to move up in weight (a poor decision imo) and fight Collazo (some dispute this win, I had Hatton by 3, but either way Hatton got the official W)..an impressive win against a very good opponent clearly not in Rickys best weight class either! A solid win against Urango (which looks better as time goes by and Urango continues to do well!), a vicious KO over Castillio (who admitadly was past his prime is still a nice win for hatton). So Hatton seeks a big payday and calls out PBF (P4P #1), while attempting to reach the pinicle of the sport...I thought he did well early, and did not have him as far behind as the judges (although I did have him behind). Whether the ref was aginst him, or he lost concentration etc..whatever.. He gave a gutsy performance and lost to at the time the best fighter in the game again in his defense, not his optimum weight class! Comes back in a very solid recovery bout against lazcano (again not a great name, but a quality win), and completely outclasses malinaggi (in a way even Cotto could not) more than most excpected going into the fight. What does Ricky do he again seeks out the the P4P #1....this one is harder to swallow as a Hatton fan (although I like Pac as well), and defend..In his best weight class, fighting a guy that he should have the physical advantage over he gets destroyed (can't think of another description).

So what do you have in Ricky hatton, a guy who in the eyes of most was the cream of the crop at 140 for the last 4 years (not bad), has solid wins over several top 140 contenders, a legacy defining win agains against Tszyu...and 2 loses aginst P4P #1 although even though his carear is winding down the one against Pac hurts him more legacy wise.

Rated as the best of 140 lb'rs in the recent past he seems to have fulfilled that untill Pac...but a 4 year stint as the man does not seem over rated in that sense. Ricky in fighting Pac although he claimed it was for the P4P title, was not listed in most top 10 P4P lists so again I am not certain how he was over rated by his accomplishments (unless you mean by his fans, and then all fighters qualify as most fans over rate their favs!)

Overhyped by who himself or agin his fans...most experts called him a hard working fighter with limited skills who wrestles alot and tries to wear out his opponent but did not lable him as a P4P or ATG...so again I don't see how he is overhyped....

and fraud I don't see this either. Unless it is because he claimed he would win both of his fights that turned into loses, and then we would have to penalize most boxers for this as well.

HOF, most likely 4 years as the man at 140, should make him a lock for this.

 

Haye...not so sure about this either and like Calzaghe I am not a big Haye fan. Agreed he is not a candidate based upon cruiser weight, and agreed that while I would like to have seen him fight Cunningham...he did not owe him a shot if he feels ready to move up to HW...their will always be another contender, so I don't see how you can fault someone for moving up to bigger fights and paydays. Is he over rated as a HW not sure...His lone win is difficult to build an assessment off of, but he did look good (and valnerable as well). But with the current group of Heavies a top 10 rating seems about legit to me. As for seeking out the biggest name opponent to fight (and belts), you say he should not (why so like Calzaghe you can say he never fought the best...when haye and Hatton seek out the best you fault them...seems like some guys can't win with you regardless of what they do) be fighting them...Who can fault a guy for seeking out the biggest payday, biggest name opponent, and trash talking to hype the fight to mega money heights it would not have commanded without his hype.

The jury is still out on haye more than the other 2...but top cruiser, and top 10 HW...not sure how that is over rated...unless you mean by his fans and again all fans do this to thier favs!

Over hyped not sure how he fits this as very few excpect him to win (I don't although I hope he does), so if anything he is underhyped except by himself and a small following.

Fraud- top level fighters are not frauds (unless they are cheaters), whiner fans who say they like boxing but diminsh most boxers are!!!

 

YOu proved absolutely no point whatsoever, congratulations.

Pavlik was out boxed by B-Hop, so what, no one is saying Kelly Pavlik is an ATG or HoF fighter either.

To PhillyPhan 69

Regarding Calzaghe, Lacy was nothing but a club fighter and when Pemberton out boxed him for the majority of their fight it showed everyone what level Lacy really was on. I don't credit Joe beating him than I give credit for Pavlik beating Miranda, since we are talking about a man who claims he is great and on the same level of greatness as RJJ and B-Hop. You bring up Eubank, but the guy was shot at the weight when Joe fought him and he was fighting him on short notice. So he had victories over two names who were nowhere near elite fighters at the time he fought, and two well known names of entertaining but not world class opposition. Sorry but Calzaghe is a fraud, and the fact that the media and he himself try to pimp him as a ATG is disgusting to me.

Hatton, fought Kostya, his best opponent he didn't lose against, and with help from the ref, who allowed Hatton to maul and wrestle Kostya beat the guy who hadn't fought in a while and was partially retired. Ok, he beat him, who could he have then fought at 140. Could have fought PBF, Witter,Gatti, MItchell, or Corley, but what does he do? He fights ****ing Carlos Maussa, the weakest belt holder in the division who surprisingly at the time beat Harris, then he continues to fights subpar opposition until he fights Collazo, who everyone can agree beat him to a pulp, gets ko'd by floyd, rocked by Juan Lazcano who would have won if the fight had taken place anywhere but in England, gets Ko'd by Paciaqou and people want to act like he was actually an elite or above average fighter, please. At his best, Hatton was a notch below Gatti, and that is saying something.

As for Haye, he doesn't deserve to be a Top 10 ranked Heavy. That is why he is overrated. If he had to work his way up to a title shot like everyone else he would never make it because he doesn't have the chin to make it in the heavyweight division.

 

When a champion (ie Haye) moves up a weight class they are commonly elevated to immediate top 10 status...no surprise that Haye was as well. I don't think haye will beat Klit (although I hope he does, because he has the potential to bring excitement to the HW division that sorely needs someone!)...so it will probably be a moot point shortly!

Hatton...I would say he is a notch above Gatti and would take him H2H, but that is speculation...I will disagree about the Lazcano decision and feel that hatton clearly deserved it (although by a narrow margin). Baut for all of his tools that is not a bad resume'..but to be on par with gatti is not a bad legacy at the end of the day.

Calzaghe- Eubank was clearly past his prime, on a lay off, and short notice...but like Hops in no way was shot (although again not quite hops league)...But Eubank & Hops are 2 nice wins regardless...and while lacy is not a great win he is clearly above a club fighter, and was highly (I disagree) touted going into the match and I don't remember the odd's but don't believe he was a vast underdog going into the fight. Kessler and Lacy & Reid are nice wins as well.

Not sure what it takes to impress you who are the guys that you support or legitimize in their claims to greatness...or are all boxers frauds???

 

What great boxer does not think or claim such things??? They would have serious obsicles to overcome if they did not. I Rate Hop's above RJJ and RJJ above Calzaghe...but that alone is not a major deficincy...Among ATG SMW who do you rate higher???

RJJJ- Yes
Toney- Not for my money, although might be better in a H2H sense (but that is largely speculation)
Eubank- I actually think a prime Eubank is better than joe prime for prime and credit Benn and watson as good or better than anything Joe boasts of.
Benn-Not in my book
Collins- I like him better, but IMO not quite as good as joe
Hop's- at MW yes, higher...but does not come into a SMW comparrison.

So how many SMW's of the last 20+ yrs are better than Joe? You can only clearly argue RJJ (and many people Toney)..although I think Eubank is better (I would be in the minority)...Not a bad legacy clearly top 5 SMW of AT, I am not a fan of his by any stretch, but have come to appreciate him and his accomplishments. I would like to see how he would have fared against some better comp as well, but at the end of the day this is what we have to rate him by...Undefeated against good not great comp., 2 nice legacy wins (Eubank and Hops), and several sound names, and 1 sided demonstrations in most of them. IMO not bad!

 

Haye is going to be exposed very soon, so I think we are both in agreement about him.

Calzaghe, beating Eubank isn't impressive at all because he was shot and it was short notice, he was only fighting a name. He arguably lost to a way out of his prime B-Hop, he got the win but again this is a out of prime B-Hop. Reid was never and elite fighter, neither was Lacy. Kessler has not shown he is an elite fighter as well, judging by the compeition he has faced since the fight. If you want to say Joe C. is a good fighter in a weak division fine, if you want to say he is a HoF fighter and potential ATG whose name should be mentioned with the likes of RJJ, B-Hop, Ali, and Leonard he is an overrated fraud. Sadly for his supporters Joe C claims he is in the same stratosphere as Jones, BHop, and other true ATG fighters.

Do you really think Hatton could have fought and beaten the Micky Ward who GAtti fought, and lets be real Gatti and Ward were nowhere near elite boxers, but I doubt Hatton could last with either of the two, espcially the version thats showed up in the first two fights.

 

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How did he overachieve? who did he beat beside Koysta, which is questionable because of the terrible officiating, and Collazo which was a joke decision, to warrant being an over achiever.

The man fought tomato cans and shot fighters and that is how he made his name. The moment he stepped up he was knocked down.

 

I don't really like the word exposed very much...even less in this instance! Haye is not favored to win, most (even most of his fans) don't excpect him to, and in all likelyhood will not win! But losing to either of the Klits hardly qualifies as exposed (either as overated, hype job and/or fraud)..

Again not big fans of the Klits, but both will proabably go down as top 25 AT HW's and Wlad may crack the top 15 (I am doubtful about top 10, but the years are kind to some boxers we will see!)...losing to either of them is hardly a major detriment.

Frazier loses to Foreman...exposed??? not for me
Ali loses to Norton...exposed??? not for me

Losing to a great does not mean exposed or fraud to me?

 

Kostya is not questionable in anyway??? Although many don't like Ricky's roughhouse tactics, I have never (before) heard someone trying to say that it should not count??? Callazo although 1 of those decision disputed amongst fans (I have some myself including Hop's against Calzaghe), when debated comes up about 60% in Ricky's favor...you may not agree, but clearly is not a joke decision and/or robbery even if you don't agree with it.

You and I will have to agree to disagree over how great or not his accomplishments are/were.

I don't think Ricky was overly quick, adept technically, overly strong (In a 1 punch KO power sense)...with that limited ability, his accomplishments and reign for 4 years atop the LWW division is still a nice legacy. Your previos claims of opponents like Witter and others, are not largely seen as threats to his crown...only the top as you said seem to have taken him out.