Who do you have higher on your p4p list, Wlad or Ward?

Klitschkos are fraudulent media-hype created fighters ?

 

I appreciate to debate with Nay_sayer. For a Klitschko hater he is unusually sound. He can spell. He tries with argumentation and logic. He calls them pathetic instead of ***gots.

 

This is how I interpret P4P lists. Nice explanation. And following this logic, Ward is the better P4P fighter. :deal

 

Tua is EASY to outbox, Evander was WAY past it, and the big Klit has ZERO heart and can't deal with slick boxers. How long has it been since the Vitali Byrd fight? 10 years? Is it just a coincidence that we haven't seen Klit the Older in the ring with a slick boxer type since the Byrd fight? Besides that, Ibeabuchi had ALREADY laid the blueprint on how to deal with Byrd.

That's where he did his best work. Haye is a Cruiser.

 

It does not! How can this even be considered a definition of P4P is beyond me! I posed a question on a thread a while ago asking how would the Bros fair if they weighed between 168 and 147. If wlad was the same weight as Ward, Ward will smoke his ass.

Domination over a **** division means nothing. PBF and Pac both can claim to be the main man of 147 but neither one dominates because of the other. Also, if a fighter moves up in class he cannot automatically dominate that division. so even if he was highly ranked before the move he could not be rated with this type of thinking.

 

It's better to just base p4p on achievements because Wlad would not be anything like he is now at SMW.

 

Five words:

Corrie Sanders and Chris Byrd.

Why did Sanders not get a rematch with Wlad?

Why did Byrd not get a rematch with Vitali?

Great fighters give rematches and beat the guys who beat them.

Louis Schmeling
Robinson Turpin
Robinson Lamotta
Patterson Johansson
Ali Frazier
Leonard Duran
Holyfield Bowe
Holyfield Moorer
Lewis McCall
Lewis Rahman

Klitschkos are FRAUDS who've done nothing but beat up on over-matched and over-hyped opponents. When they step up the competition - they get KO'ed.

Truth.

 

In a nutshell.

This fight wouldn't even be competitive...

 

Despite this standard ESB routine Byrd remains a more talented athlete than anyone Ward has ever faced. Froch is slow. Kessler is slow. But it aint his fault he starts out at a weak division.

Some boxers can perform at more than one weightclass. Hayes 210 pounds at HW where not fat.

 

Froch and Kessler have never been KO'ed - and that is despite the fact that they compete in the deepest division in boxing.

Ibeabuchi blasted out Byrd in six rounds years before Wlad got to him.

Irrelevant. Haye is NOT a HW by modern standards.

Ward > Wlad

 

This discussion is pointless because Wlad and Ward fans use different criterias to suit their own argument. There is no clear answer.

However, there are not a definite, ultimate definition of p4p so stop that talk. Concepts can change.

I have to say that the notion of p4p as imagining fighter being of the same size as... well... flawed. Immeasurable and speculative.

If a fighter magically shrinks down, in fantasy land, he automatically gets different physical attributes as well. He'd probably be quicker, more mobile and better coordinated. Not only that, but he'd also had to change his style dramatically. He simply wouldn't be the same fighter! To say he would be the same would be ridiculous - why base a style on distance control and movement if you're not tall? I could twist the argument and say that if Ward was, relatively speaking, as tall in his division as Wlad, he'd developed different techniques. Emphasizing some, downplaying others. It'd only be natural, in most cases (there are exceptions).

I'm okay with that definition, still, if you point out the better skill level and are certain that it's not only due to developing different skills and playing to your adventages. Just don't claim that there only is one definition because dominance, longevity and achievments is another one, that gains in strength I reckon.

On a sidenote, I'd say that Haye and Byrd most definitely are heavyweights. They're small but has both beaten top ten ranked BIG heavyweights and, as such, deserved their high ranking. Haye as as big as some historically very good HWs. Take the average weight and size of the division and you will see that Haye, at least, aren't physically outgunned.

Nevertheless, you might say that Ward has had the better two-three years with Kessler, Froch, Bika and AA in a relatively short period of time. Wlad hasn't had these kind of names in that time span.

Undecided, but still Klit.

 

They have not been KO'ed because they fight in a division where the top dog only have decent power.

Froch and Kessler both faced losses before they fought Ward.

Modern limit is 200 pounds.

If he clean out SMW and moves up to LHW he might get there.

 

Right now Wlad, without question. When ward fights and if he beats Bute then Ward can move up higher on the list.

 

what about these

Lewis vs Vitali
Douglas vs Tyson
Foreman vs Ali
Foreman vs Young

Are they all frauds?

 

Sad and pathetic argument.

Haye and Byrd both had been KO'ed before facing Wlad.

Both Haye and Byrd began their careers below 200 lbs.

Lol. Maybe when Wlad finally cleans out the HW division he'll be on par with Ward...