Who do you rank higher: Andre Ward or Joe Calzaghe

Except the TWO Kovalev wins are not legitimate victories. We all know the circumstances around those fights.

 

It's not just the name, but the overall performance. Jones was a shell of his former self, sure....but he still was experienced, crafty and fast. He obviously had power as well. Jones just lost reflexes and couldn't pull the trigger like he did in his prime.

 

They were wins albeit with some controversy. Still, over all I think Ward came out with the wins and showed he was very capable of beating Kovalev. And vise versa

 

It is debatable.

Only people off base here are people that don't think it is either way.

 

Well hey... you can't fix stupid. And THEY really really don't care about the many FILTHY obstacles Ward and his team of goons put in front of his opponents. Before AND during the fights. But "It's about dat W doe!"

 

Calzaghe / Ward threads always descend into trolling. I think Zaggers beats Ward, but "easy" ... no. Give the devil his due, AW is great at gameplanning and fighting the sort of fight that discomfits his opponents the most. JC would have to sweat for it.

 

To me, that's just a contradiction.

You've said that he was a shell of his former self who'd lost his reflexes and couldn't pull the trigger.

So that's the exact reason why Joe shouldn't get much credit.

Look at Roy's fight with Glen Johnson. Glen didn't just knock Roy out. It's not as though Roy looked great but got caught. He lost every one of the 9 rounds before being put to sleep. And that was over 4 years before Joe fought him.

Joe himself says that Johnson only beat him because he was shot. He literally used the word "shot" in his autobiography. So by his own admission he was facing a guy who'd been shot for 4 years.

I would struggle to include Roy in Joe's top 5 wins.

 

Calzaghe did not deserve the decision against Robin Reid. Ward beat better fighters and more importantly at their peak.

 

Calzaghe was actually defeated by his wife and that was no split decision. She won hands down.

 

abilitywise, ward eclipsed joes best win, joes last title fight, in his first title fight.

 

Ward never deserved his decision in the first fight with Kovalev. Beating Prime Kessler is equally good as beating prime Kovalev. Beating prime Reid is better the beating prime Froch. Beating prime feared boogyman Lacy is much better than beating a drained Dawson. I could go on. Joe has a much better resume than Ward.

 

maybe, but ward faced him again and beat him again. Joe ran gibbering in fear from a rematch in which he knew he'd get beat again.

how? kovalev is not just one division higher, but had better wins than kessler at that point. I dnt see how you can justify it.

just no, froch was elite, he proved it.....reid was merely world class. let alone that elite froch absoltuely and easily mauled mere world class reid rather than struggled to a debatable loss/win

lacy has been destoryed numerous times by a serial bum club. Hes not Dawson, who is not just better, better wins, better skillset, but also a division higher extra power. Dawson was the man at LHW. Lacy was lucky to have had a title at SMW.

 

It's not a contradiction, is a reality. All fighters begin to lose a step as they get older. Not pulling the trigger doesn't mean they aren't punching at all. It just means they don't see the openings like they once did or are not as confident taking advantage of the openings because of the counter. And being a shell of their former self is universal for all aging boxers. Floyd is a shell of his former self based on how he looked against McGregor....he's 40, but it doesn't mean he can't fight or beat some of the best at this stage.

When Bhop lost twice to Taylor they were saying he was shot, then he came back and got some good wins, Pavlik was a hell of a performance for Nard. Jones never bounced back or looked the same after dropping back down to light heavyweight after winning the heavyweight championship from Ruiz....but he still got some decent wins along the way to prove he was still capable of winning as a pro.

Joe said Jones was shot but he is a massive Jones fan. That was one of his idols. He respects Jones a great deal but yeah....Jones wasn't the fighter he was 10'years before they fought. But Joe wasn't a spring chicken either. He was on the downside of his career as well. He retired after beating Jones. Jones still continued on and still got some wins and loses.

It wasn't a great win for his legacy but it was a good one for sure. Better than if he didn't have that on his resume

 

Calzaghe's career is even more amazing if you look at where he learned to box and the facilities he had. Plus he barely ever sparred.

 

Andre moved up to LHW to beat Kovalev. Him beating Kovalev at LHW, is better than Joe beating Kessler at SMW. The rematch was stopped a little early, but Kovalev was spent at that point and Weeks had seen enough. Stopping Kovalev trumps beating Kessler in a competetive fight. They're close, but the Kovalev win has to rate higher.

Joe beating Reid wasn't better than Andre's win over Froch. What annoys me about your way of thinking/ranking, is that you don't allow for all factors/circumstances. Joe wasn't fully fit, but he struggled with Reid and just scraped a decision. Whereas Andre had a fractured hand, yet he beat Froch pretty easily. You have to look at the circumstances and the manner of the victories etc. Also, why was Reid any better than Carl Froch? He wasn't. He lost to Silvio Branco. (I won't count Carl's H2H win over him, as he was faded)

So: If Reid was no better than Froch, yet Andre beat Froch with ease whilst injured, then how can Joe's win over Reid be held in higher regard, especially when it was so close? There's no logic to that. The win over Froch has to rate higher. Carl went on to destroy Bute, and Reid went onto lose to Branco.

Joe does not have a much better resume than Andre. You're being silly.