Who do you rank higher as an ATG: Azumah Nelson or Floyd Mayweather Jr?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by horst, Aug 23, 2011.


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  1. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    But Nelson wasn't rated as high as people think in all honesty. There was never really an extended period when he was regarded as one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in boxing (and by best, I don't mean being rated around 8th or 9th). Even his prime years were full of poor performances, such as controversial fights vs. Villasana and Martinez. His longevity was impressive overall and that's not to say he wasn't an excellent fighter in his pomp, he clearly was. But Mayweather is clearly superior.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Aug 23, 2011
    My dinner with Conteh, Aug 23, 2011
    #16
  2. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    It isn't that Azumah is a top 40 or 50, it is that neither is Floyd.
     
    MAG1965, Aug 23, 2011
    MAG1965, Aug 23, 2011
    #17
  3. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    Exactly. I see were MDWC is coming from, but I still wouldn't say Floyd is way superior. His resume is pathetic and some of his 'best wins' have featured performances that are less than satisfactory for a supposed 'top 50 ATG'.
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    #18
  4. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    I don't think he is overly superior either.
     
    MAG1965, Aug 24, 2011
    MAG1965, Aug 24, 2011
    #19
  5. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    Me neither.

    Floyd is probably the most overrated fighter of all time IMO, as per his achievement leading to a lot organs perceptions of him,

    I dont understand it :huh
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    #20
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Honestly, when compiling a top 50 floyd's name was there and nelson's wasn't.

    I rate floyd as a greater sfw then nelson plus floyd twice defeated the best lightweight in the world before going into obscurity and then returning with victories over corley, gatti, mitchel, judah, bald, oscar, hatton, jmm and mosley.

    Floyd's been a p4p elite now since 99 and it's only due to the amazing success of pacman and hopkins that he isn't remembered as the greatest fighter of his era.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 24, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 24, 2011
    #21
  7. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ^^^^^
    Short but spot on

    On a pfp all time list id rate Floyd much higher... This coming from a big Azumah Nelson fan.
     
    anarci, Aug 24, 2011
    anarci, Aug 24, 2011
    #22
  8. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Nelson, for me. Very very close, though.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Aug 24, 2011
    Holmes' Jab, Aug 24, 2011
    #23
  9. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    I think it sums Floyd up that Gatti is considered one of his best wins.
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    #24
  10. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Man you cant be serious? These guys are all much better wins

    Faded Delahoya
    Prime Castillio (although first fight could have gone either way IMO)
    Prime Corrales
    Prime Judah
    Prime although smaller Hatton
    Prime Jesus Chavez
    Old Hernandez
    Prime Manfredy
    Primo Famoso about on par
    faded Goyo Vargas about on par with Gatti at jw
    Even a blown up LW and chunky Marquez
     
    anarci, Aug 24, 2011
    anarci, Aug 24, 2011
    #25
  11. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    I was quoting someone that counted Gatti as amongst his best wins.

    So maybe read first; someone said it was one of his notable wins, and to be honest, the rest of those wins are not top 50 material, unless you think Mosley is a top 100 fighter (which he isn't) :good
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    #26
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    you think gatti is one of his best wins?

    I noted it as one his top 9 above Lightweight.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 24, 2011
    lufcrazy, Aug 24, 2011
    #27
  13. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    Nope, I was (obviously mis)quoting you :good

    I would therefore say that he has less good wins over Lightweight than you reckon. Which is fair, means little in the grand scheme of things: with or without, he has a pretty poor resume when comparing him to other fighters people regularly claim as 'top 50 ATGs'.

    And, as I say, some of his performances (particularly the DLH fight) have been disappointing for a man of his supposed talent.

    I'll tell ya now: I really don't rate him. So if you're looking for a proper debate with me, it's fairly difficult, I find it hard to be swayed regarding Floyds supposedly immeasurable talents :good

    Even on film, his offence is not too varied, and his defence hasn't been proven against sufficiently brilliant offensive operator.....IMO ;-)

    He's bloody good, don't get me wrong, but I'd sooner die than agree he's a 'top 50 ATG', as I say, just my opinion :good
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 24, 2011
    #28
  14. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Mayweather by quite a long way, modern fighters will be given a greater due when they retire, retired are forgiven for allot. Nelson clearly hit his ceiling against Sanchez/Whitaker, Mayweather hasn't hit a ceiling yet. People are talking about fighters Mayweather missed out on, well Nelson didn't beat the best champions of his era. He missed out on the best FW of his era bar Sanchez in Pedroza, Pedroza imo beats him too. He missed out on Chavez, Lockridge and Brian Mitchell at 130. I'm not saying he ducked those but he didn't beat better fighters than them either

    That was along way above his prime weight against a much bigger man who was elite and what about Nelson's performances against lower tier operators where he scraped controversal SDs/MDs??
     
    PowerPuncher, Aug 24, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Aug 24, 2011
    #29
  15. horst

    horst Guest

    This is an idiotic point.

    Mayweather has never fought anyone anywhere even close to being half as good as the versions of Sanchez and Whitaker that Nelson fought.

    This is like saying that Joe Calzaghe was a better fighter than Thomas Hearns because Hearns found his ceiling against Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler, but Calzaghe managed to win his own big fights against Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler.

    When Nelson fought Sanchez, he'd had 13 pro fights, the vast majority of which were in Africa. He came to the USA, went in against a prime version of one of the greatest featherweights ever, and pushed him life and death until the final round.

    Nelson's "ceiling" was arguably a greater achievement than Mayweather has ever managed, before you even consider Nelson's wins!

    When Nelson fought Whitaker, he moved up to Pea's weight for the fight, then moved back down and never fought there again before he retired. The 1990 lightweight Pernell Whitaker is as good a boxer as there EVER was, IMO.


    Honestly PP, sometimes the things you say boggle the mind. This is a crazy, crazy statement to make. :nut
     
    horst, Aug 24, 2011
    horst, Aug 24, 2011
    #30
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