Who do you rank higher: Orlando Canizales or Gilberto Roman

I’d go for Gilberto Roman whom I consider to be one of the most underrated fighters of the last 30-40 years.

 

Didn't Nacho rate Gilberto Roman as the best fighter he ever produced?

Its crazy how many Nacho cultivated from their earliest days to world title level.

 

He did but then he may have switched it to JMM but I cant remember.

 

Exactly the same. Lineal champ as well and fought the best super fly had to offer except Galaxy (that’s on Khaosai)

Canizales very talented but fought utter dross for the majority of his reign, the definition of a crap ABC reign. Could’ve done so much more, but didn’t...and in fact his brother fought (and beat!) superior opposition.

 

Bump for actual good thread.

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Nachos generally always gone with Marquez when talking about his best. I think he had a special bond with Roman though and talking to Nacho I get the feeling Roman’s his second favorite.

One day when Marquez was doing a workout in Santa Monica the week of the Katsidis fight I asked who he considered to be the best fighter to come out of Mexico he pointed over at Marquez. Roman was one of the fighters he mentioned as being up there but oddly he didn’t seem fond of Salvador Sanchez. He seemed to think Sanchez had sloppy technique and was going to lose very soon had he not died. He never trained Sanchez but I can’t help but feel there was some sort of dislike for whatever reason.

 

Also got another one going on Sun Kil Moon @Russell if you're interested: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/the-strange-case-of-sun-kil-moon.617050/

 

Roman is a guy I didn't know much about but what with @Flea Man and his top 10 super flyweights, I've started watching more of his fights.

Canizales and his 90s title reign was exactly as @ChrisJS said - mostly conducted against poor opposition. Just on that basis, I'd favour Roman.

 

Roman was a masterful boxer. Short guy but really long arms and would make excellent use of that advantage. His fights were usually always fun and of high quality stuff. His fight with Watanabe is a personal favorite of mine.

 

That's interesting. I definitely remember reading that Nacho said Roman was his best pupil, but that was somewhere around the time JMM was rebounding from his mid-career downturn after losing to Chris John. No one could have known then that Marquez was on the brink of an epic turnaround, with unimaginable glory still ahead.

Rafa was phenomenally talented too, but it seemed like he and Nacho had a falling out at some point during the trilogy with Vasquez.

 

I think the connection with Nacho and Rafa isn’t the same (as with Juan). Nacho had said Juan treats everybody well (from people who come up to him in the airport for example to people in the sport) and that Rafa isn’t quite as nice and nowhere near as dedicated. I remember Nacho was frustrated Rafa would show up late for training. Rafa split ways saying he’s not getting enough attention from Nacho.

I met Rafa once and he was nice. I’ve met Nacho a number of times (I would attend basically every JMM fight) and he told me pretty frankly in October 2013 when Rafa hired him back (Esquivias fight) that Nacho only accepted (training him again) because of the respect he has for Juan Manuel.

I think for an old school guy like Nacho he respected the fact Juan Manuel always had the same drive and I think Rafa hit a point perhaps the Vazquez series where he couldn’t push himself as much/got a bit more relaxed. Nacho was a close friend of their father who boxed.

 

Great insight. I must admit I'm a huge fan of Marquez's technique. Hes right up there top 5 of my favorite Mexican fighters ever. I enjoy watching his YouTube gym vids alot.

 

That’s the first thing I was drawn to when he was an up and comer was that technique. You could see he was a great student. His intelligence was such that in his 30s once his speed had started to go away his technique and creativity in combinations got even better hence he was more exciting in his mid 30s than his mid 20s.

A common theme amongst most Nacho Beristein trained fighters was how good they were technically and for smaller guys how long their careers lasted.