Who Do You Rate Higher: Jack Dempsey or Jack Johnson ??

You may want to reconsider. 1905? Johnson could not even tame Marvin Hart in 1905. I doubt Johnson beats Jeffries in 1905. Maybe after Jeffries was inactive and fat for years. In 1909 Jeffries tired a comeback in the gym and looked horrible.


Keep in mind, Johnson in 1909 was knocked silly in a 4 round exhibition match by Gun BoatSmith, out boxed by middle weight O'Brien according to quite a few sources, some of which are local, and floored by middle weight Ketchel.


Johnson beat the shell of Jeffries in 1910, but Jeffries who had not fought in 5 years, and lost most of what he had did manage to cut Johnson, and in round 11 hurt him as " Johnson wobbled perceptively from a body shot ". Jeffries was just too old, tired and slow to capitalize on it.

 

O Brien was the reigning lightheavyweight champion when he went 6 rds to a no dec with Johnson.


According to Gunboat Smith, in a taped interview in 1972, he put Johnson halfway through the ropes in a sparring session. No -one was knocked silly. Ketchel scaled 170.25lbs when he fought Johnson so he was no middleweight.

Jeffries signed to fight Johnson in August 1909, by the end of October of that year he scaled 235lbs.
He was sparring daily with Sam Berger,and charging the public to see it, indeed he was hauled up before a court for doing just that.


Johnson entered the ring with a cut on his lip sustained in a sparring session with Kid Carter, leading up to the fight.

Jeffries did not cut Johnson.

Johnson finished the fight unmarked except for a trace of blood from the lip.


It was remarked upon in all the papers that he showed no facial damage after the fight.

Jeffries did not wobble Johnson in the 11th rd.


Johnson said he felt only one of Jeffries punches and that was a body shot in the 4th rd,the only round that Jeffries won.
After the fight Johnson stated, "he can't hit"

The referee and promoter Tex Rickard said Johnson won as he pleased and could have finished it after the 4th rd, Bob Fitzsimmons confirmed this opinion.


I have posted round by round ringside commentaries several times and if I could be arsed to expose you yet again as the lying piece of **** you are ,I would do so now , but you know what ?


I cannot be bothered.

 

Surely you jest? What makes you say this?

 

Dempsey for me he stood out over all of his predecessors, he was dynamic, ferocious, fast and full of action and meanness ...Johnson was an excellent stylist with decent power but for me Dempsey stands out above Johnson and Jeffries and the rest.

 

In 1905 it might well have been a fore-runner of Frazier v Ali 1.I would definitely give Jeffries the nod prior to that. After 1905? Only one winner imo , and he is not vanilla hued.

N.B.Jeffries was down to 235lbs at the end of October 1909, when he came back from Carlsbad



http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F6091FFE3A5512738DDDA80994DB405B898CF1D3

 

You don't think Johnson always had the style to beat Jeffries... Jeffries even said the same thing... In 1905 what exactly was he going to do differently as far as tactics.

 

That didn't get hart anything but to get bloodied and bruised up and getting a gift decision. Difference is that Munro is no Jack Johnson and doesn't have the power to make Jeffries respect him like Johnson does.

 

Jeffries would be in top shape for Johnson , he was not for Munro ,simply because he well knew it was a travesty of a fight.

1904 Jeffries would be able to "cram on the sails", react quicker to Johnson' s moves ,and get his own body attack off more effectively than he did at Reno . Jeffries would have his old time stamina and ,confidence the doubts that crippled his attempt to regain the title would not be in his psyche .


Prime Johnson I believe, had the style to defuse Jeffries onslaught but 1904 Johnson was not prime imo.
As late as March 1905 ,[when he fought Hart],Johnson was a slender heavyweight around 20lbs lighter than the prime champ who waltzed a tired Jeff around, clamping his arms close to his sides, rendering him harmlessly ineffectual .

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what black fighters? most of them were either retired or dempseys own sparring partners.

Plus Langford was a light middleweight, that win is laughable.

 

It wasn't laughable for Langford, he got the biggest hiding of his life.
Oh,and Langford had over 50 fights under his belt when he fought Johnson ,who, at 185lbs was 20lbs below his best weight.

 

This has been emphatically refuted by Adam Pollack's primary sourced next day newspaper accounts of the fight.
Johnson was stopped in the 5th rd, after having Klondike on the floor at the start of the fight. According to famous referee George Siler who was ringside Johnson was half starved , he was also just 21 years old.