Who do you rate higher: Monzon or JC Chavez ??

true :smoke the problem in a way with monzon is that much like hagler, he may be penalized for only fighting in one weight class. also like hagler, some of his more notably opponents (griffiths, napoles) were smaller (in napoles' case TINY in comparison).

 

Haglers best wins were over smaller men. Monzon did have some good (better) big men on his resume, tho when reading boxing literature of their actual time it appears they have grown quite substancially in stature.

Then we have someone like Chavez chasing bigger and better and defeating them to boot.

I'm a big fan of both.

 

monzon's legacy and ranking ultimately come down to how highly you value his wins over briscoe and valdez (and to a lesser extent benvenuti).

it's certainly up for debate

 

Monzon

 

I have Chavez slighty higher feel his resume has more depth and Monzon was normally the big man fighting the small man like napoles, griffith and nino.

 

They're in the same bracket for me, anywhere between 25-35.

 

didn't explain myself well admittedly. i think monzon did some things SOOOO well he was nearly unbeatable. amazingly effective but i think chavez may be better in terms of overall skills on both offense and defense. splitting hairs to a certain point but monzon was a better general, chavez a better warrior

 

I think Monzon's oft stated ring generalship and cool demeanor backed up by his understated but very real power coupled with the achievement of retiring at the top and not coming back makes him the best. In a historical perspective, Monzon was never stopped or humbled, whereas Chavez was..this means a great deal at least to me...also Monzon was hurt vs Briscoe and decked vs Valdez, yet battled back from adversity to win both fights..when did that ever happen with Chavez? He was great, like Mike Tyson against guys who he could steamroll, but as they say, battling back from adversity is the real mark of a champion.

 

i can't believe i'm sticking up for chavez:tong but would you classify the taylor win (disputed or not) as coming back from adversity? even rosario who was a MONSTER hitter landed his shots but chavez walked right through in the great in fighting performance of the decade. i agree with your point but chavez simply enforced his will on so many fighters

 

Surely, if Rosario had uncorked a prime bomb of his squarely on Chavez's chin he would have hurt him..he didn't of course, because Chavez smothered him so well..I mean, anybody can be hurt when that happens..I wonder how JCC would have coped with that. Meldrick contested him over that 12 round distance with his pitty pat punches..hell, if the fight had been the classic 15 rounds, I have no doubt that Chavez would have stopped him..just like I'm sure that Monzon's fights with Valdez wouldn;t have been as decisive if they were limited to 12 rounds. Duran, at least, came back from that 1st round kd vs DeJesus to battle back and stop his man. I like JCC alot, but I feel he was in many ways a front runner. Plus, Monzon fought that last fight with Valdez at the relatively advanced age of 35, whereas Chavez was 25 Rosario and 28 vs Taylor.

 

all fair points :think overall, how highly do you rate the briscoe and valdez wins? they are (for me) the crown jewels of his middleweight reign. how much impact do they have on his ranking?

 

The Briscoe and Valdez fights stamp greatness on Carlos Monzon..in both fights he was hurt and battled back to impose his will and emerge victorious. I believe both BB and Valdez would have ko'ed anyone else they would have fought with their efforts with most anyone else than Monzon. Remember, Monzon was the older man in both contests..not exactly at his peak.