Who do you rate higher than Roy Jones Jr. h2h....

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KuRuPT, Feb 10, 2020.


  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not many really.
    Charles
    Pep
    Ali
    Louis
    Mayweather
    Probably it for me. I hold Roy in a top ten p4p ranking at his best. There are more that got more done career wise but idk if they were as unstoppable at their best.
     
  2. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is just an example of where one could go with this question:

    Lewis - HW
    Holyfield - CW
    Spinks/Tunney - LHW
    Calzaghe/Ward - SMW
    Monzon - MW
    Hearns - LMW
    Napoles - WW
    Chavez - LWW
    Gans/Duran - LW
    Mayweather Jr./Arguello - SFW
    Sanchez - FW
    Gomez - SBW
    Olivares/Zarate - BW
    Galaxy SFlW
    Gonzalez - FlW
    Lopez - MinW


    The above all have a shout, as I suspect do many more.

    It's all very subjective, of course, so disagreements are well-expected.
     
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jones actual division when narrowed down is weak comparative to other much longer term divisions, as is Wilfredo Gomez's for example.

    If we look at it differently however we can say guys like Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Michael Spinks (perhaps, 170 1/2 not long before his jump to Heavyweight without any big effort to make weight), Lloyd Marshall, Billy Conn, Holman Williams and countless others. Monzon had a few over the weights matches too as did almost all the great middleweights. Some of them would carry the weight quit well.

    As far as performance in the ring I'd be looking at guys like Ali, Charles, SRR, Duran, Whitaker, Armstrong, Pep. Jones is dynamite H2H imo. He was in a different dimension to most. His H2H abilities well outstrip his actual resume.
     
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  4. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This^ seems to be saying he underachieved at 168. If so, I'd agree. And, therein lies the challenge.

    We can say "[RJJ's] H2H abilities well outstrip his actual resume", but it's difficult to assess him, when such a judgment relies almost entirely on what people saw him do against, in the main, fairly mediocre comp. Sure, I think he looked great, most of the time, and all the better for fighting lower-tier opponents - But, the lack of substance in RJJ's resume does, add an extra layer of subjectivity (and, IMO, a significant one).

    Unless we want to pin RJJ's H2H prowess at 168, entirely on his victory over Toney, I'd say it's difficult to push a case for him; especially, when compared to other greats, who in their respective divisions, gathered hard evidence to push theirs.
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not saying he underachieved i am saying he is a lot better H2H than he had the chance to actually show. It wasn't a SRR of Ezzard Charles type era.

    His victory over Toney gets him a helluva lot of mileage and rightfully so. He beat plenty of non elite comp but the way he beat them was often ridiculous.

    For sure there's that teeny bit of leap comparative to resumes like Charles and Ali but given his results against the likes of Toney and others good fighters below that it's hardly crazy thinking. I can accept the odd person having doubts tho even if mine are much smaller.
     
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  6. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How can you make a thread on H2H when some didn't
    Lewis HW after getting sparked twice? Nah.....
     
  7. Jel

    Jel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The fact that I liked both of your posts reflects that I'm a bit in-between on Jones.

    He was the best talent I've seen in the near-30 years I've been following the sport. Not one of the best, THE BEST. Between 1994 and 1999, he was pretty much untouchable. And his absolute prime came during those super middleweight years. If we're talking just the history of that division, he is H2H number 1 in my view. He destroyed fighters who were not on his level at 168 and beat a guy who we thought was, but turned out not to be either.

    But if you then open up the competition to fighters who occasionally fought on the heavy side of middleweight or
    fighters who could fight on the lighter side of light-heavyweight, I wouldn't pick him with the same level of confidence. Could he have made that extra step up against over-the-weight middleweights like Robinson and Monzon or under the weight light-heavies like Charles and Moore? I wouldn't bet a lot against it but they met generally tougher competition than Jones did. When that's the company we are talking about him keeping, this is where the doubt is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  8. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jones Jr is a phenomenon so, it's not so much a case of having doubts, more a preference for tangible, noteworthy results. This, as opposed to the usual inference that RJJ wins against [insert fantasy opponent, here], a few of which he could have fought, but didn't.

    So, it's not really a teeny bit of a leap, where resumes are concerned. At 168, it's actually a fairly noteworthy gap between the class of opponent he fought and that which he might have.

    A single fight against an elite opponent, in James Toney, who happened to be severely weight-troubled, isn't enough for me as the coverall evidence of RJJ's H2H supremacy.
     
  9. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lewis is probably the best amongst a new breed of the then emerging 'Super Heavyweights', who beat every man he ever faced; including a considerable number of Ring rated opponents. I'd say that makes him deserving of a high rating, in the head-to-head stakes.
     
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  10. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes of course but it doesn't mean he rates as high as Jones at SMW.
     
  11. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Active Member Full Member

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    In his divisions (I think it’s dumb to do a mythical with a flyweight and a light heavyweight) I think maybe he’s not quite developed enough to defeat Monzon and I can see Hagler beating him at his peak at 160. At 168 he’s probably the best head to head but at 175 you’ve got Charles, Moore, Spinks, Foster (Foster hits too hard for his chin).

    Just strictly speaking the following fighters for example are better pound for pounders: Robinson, Leonard, Jofre, Duran, Hearns, Pep, Armstrong, Whitaker etc; there’s more too.
     
  12. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I've read the OP as a H2H rating, by division. Not as a request to suggest candidates for meeting RJJ directly head-to-head, at 168.
     
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  13. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Lewis has a shout, given that Jones fought mainly mediocre competition at 168, over the course of around, what was it, nine or ten bouts? There's quite a few ranked opponents he didn't face and the one notable name he fought there was severely weight drained, at the time.

    I'd say that there are more H2H question marks for RJJ, at 168, than there are for Lewis at HW.
     
  14. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Loma is more skilled than Jones was and Hearns was better and more proven, I feel Benitez was better than Jones P4P and Duran. Leonard and Jones were very similar in terms of not being great boxers but being great athletes, their speed combined with power was unusual and dangerous.
     
  15. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think you grasp the thread pal.
     


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