Who do you rate more highly: Joe Calzaghe or Bernard Hopkins?

I'm a Brit and a Calzaghe fan but voted for Hopkins - big time.

 

2 Years less than what you were implying though. Hardly chicken feed.


Thought you were up to date, i apologise. DM couldnt secure a fight with Roy even though he had an excelllent folowing in the States and was the Linear champ. Calzaghe was merely a SMW with a WBO belt. How could he not manouvere past DM?. If you think that Calzaghe can surpass that mark set by DM by beating Eubank then fair enough. I doubt it myself.



If you have to be told which is a harder fight for Roy, Calzaghe/DM or Harmon/Woods, then again, there isnt much point us debating mate.


For Roy?. Who? Ive asked you before. I can see the route to Hop. I cant for Roy. Enlighten me. Dont bring Ricky into it, he is the best Risk/reward fighter for elite fighters on the planet. Everyone loves him, on both sides of the pond.

No need to get personal. Just focus and debate like a man.


Are you seriously suggesting he watched that fight and found Joe less of an opponent than Frazier,Johnson and Telesco??. Or was it risk/reward?. No-one knew who Calzaghe was. And we are talking about hypothetical ways Calzaghe can get Jones between 98-02, and as of now, you have given us squat. Step up.


Except HBO would have to accept the fight, and Joe wasnt on SKY, and Calzaghe couldnt possibly get a fight that was bigger than Benn-Eubank(Not enough for America) or Benn-McClellan(Not enough for Roy). Youre damn right no-one knew him, and what fights at LH can he get in 98 as the WBO SMW champ with no defenses? WHO??. How do you see Balzsay quest to get Hop in the Ring, and how long do you see it taking?.

 

I was only using Johnson's name as a marker of time. IMO the very best version of Hopkins was around 2001, and for reasons already stated I cannot envisage how Calzaghe could avoid a comprehensive defeat to an accurate and aggressive counterpuncher with a superb defence.

However, as with all hypotheticals this is all hypothetical, and as always I do respect your opinion on all matters boxing.

 

Sorry, but I've lost interest in debating with you - because I no longer believe that you actually think the things you say. You just have an inability to admit you are wrong, even when it is painfully obvious. All this pontificating about maneouvering and the 'either ors' and possible routes and evaluating risk/reward, it's a lot of absolute ****ing dog**** and you know it. Utter nonsense. The cold hard fact is that Joe never lifted a finger, and although you would happily sit up to 5am tapping your fingers sore off the keyboard, you cannot change reality. :hi:

 

I'll leave you with a post from Calzaghe fan BoxingFanNo1 from another thread currently doing the rounds:

So short, so simple, so obvious, and so beyond the nature of someone like BadJuju to simply admit it.

Another day in this asylum draws to a close...

 

Dinamita,as a fellow "wegie" take it from me buddy,"your talkin out yer hole".Clinton Woods,Glen Johnson ffs.Boxing is all to do with tv contracts and politics,and ****all to do with ability.Woods and Johnson were signed to fight cos they were viewed as "no threat" where as Calzaghe was a live opponent.Love your avatar by the way,which part of Glesga is pac man fae ? the drum ? posso ? aw naw must be Govan :good

 

Cheers for all of that wisdom. Boy you set me straight alright. You're going to be a wonderful addition to this forum. :good

What part of Glezga is the man in your avatar from? Haghill? atsch

 

As i've stated on two previous occasions my avatar is a cynical swipe at BHops inflated ego,and his racist comments.Thanks for the welcome by the way,maybe i can contribute a valid oppinion to some threads and maybe you could put a good word in for me ? :good

 

It's sad, but it's your choice.

 

The very first response to this thread, from one of the most long-standing and respected posters on this site:

The man was right on both counts.

Good night gentlemen.

 

Yeah so sad that I said it's bull**** any ducking went on from anyone.

I said he could have got Hop to accept the contract.

Roy was never happening before he decided to go to HW. Thats a fact.

Why the need to bring my name into it is beyond me fella, especially as i agree with the poster. ONE of those spots could have been filled.

 

I hope you don't mind me picking you up on this so long after its been posted, but as Calzaghe hater numero uno I think you should man up on this one.

Calzaghe agreed to a fight with Hopkins. Hopkins agrees to the fight. 24 hours later Hopkins pulls out.
Do you see that this, possibly, is Hopkins avoiding Calzaghe (I'm not questioning his belief in his ability to win, but never the less its him doing the avoiding). Why pretend that this didn't happen.

Leave Roy Jones Junior out of this particular thread. Why is Calzaghe at fault here?

 

In fact, I agree. That is a fact after all. 1998-2002, it was categorically and literally not possible for a fight between Roy Jones and Joe Calzaghe to happen. A scientifically proven impossibility, like time travel. Roy fought many men in this period, but for Joe to be one of them simply could not have occurred, no matter what lengths he went to. Professor Joe knew this of course, and that explains why he never even lifted a finger to try. This is fact.


This place is a ****ing joke sometimes.

 

definitey b-hop

 

What a question. Joe is not at Bernard's level or in his class. He is a large step below.


Joe was merely a really good fighter. He got to the end of his career in pristine condition because he didn't fight another Eubank level fighter until he fought gray as gandalf Bernard Hopkins in 2008. Only non-athletic couch potatoes and morons really believe Joe was some tremendous unique talent. Chris was way past peak and Joe won on his work rate while landing little (yes he got a flash KD) as he struggled catching punches with his face (successfully - but only to the point where he decided never to go there again for a decade) the majority of 12 rounds.

Joe's TKO/KO list is absolutely pathetic. Take away a ref cuts stoppage over a very pissed off Sheika and a premature ref stoppage of Mitchell when Joe closed his eyes and caught Mitchell and he has stopped NOBODY in his entire career. {Oh, how his refs loved the man and did their best on his behalf} He didn't have substantive power over his entire career (nothing to do with his hands .. it is his technique and strength). He was never gifted like the true elites and could never avoid an elite athlete's punches (see OLD Hopkins ROUND 1, OLD Jones ROUND 1 & 6 (think it was six) for further evidence beyond the (past peak) Eubank fight) - well, he did avoid those kind of punches by not fighting anyone as talented as past peak Eubank for ten years (and he only relented when he was forced to at the end of his career by the laughter of his peers - fortunately he was still in pristine at that point having lived in a glass case for a decade).

If Joe had had to face more Eubank level fighters in his career he never would have gotten to the end with his chin in tact. Joe deserves credit for pulling off the great illusion because clearly he has managed to permanently attract some incredible nuthugging adults who wish to believe that Joe was amazing. For some reason they aren't satisfied with what is so obvious to everyone else: that Joe is a GOOD BOXER, not an EXTRAORDINARY one and definitely not an ELITE. Dozens upon dozens would have beaten him head to head from 160 to 175 from the past many generations (no, not based upon their records - see Joe was UNDEFEATED, PERFECT - just like Swen Ottke - but based upon the truth).

Joe was fortunate to be in the (joke) 168 division with a weakass belt and to have had a number of better fighters call it a career (for a variety of different reasons) in the mid to late '90s. There may never be another more fortunate fighter again. At least we can all only hope - well, except for the guys who ignore what the video shows so plainly to everyone else.

I wonder if there is a German boxing board somewhere where they rave about Ottke? Around here, you start to seem like you dislike a fighter (and I think Joe is really good though near the end of a long list of really great fighters from 160-175) because you see such undeserved nuthuggery. If Hatton had not stepped up and fought FMJ and had not fought Pac he could have ended his career at 46-0 easily. While JC does many, many things better than RH (and Ricky has some attributes that Joe could surely have benefited from), it is also because JC never stepped into the fire in the PRIME years of other great fighters. Both guys were good in their own way, neither was ever ELITE.