Who Do YOU Recognize as the Champs between Foreman-Moorer and Holyfield-Lewis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by CF Gauss, Oct 30, 2009.


  1. CF Gauss

    CF Gauss Member Full Member

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    After George Foreman KO'd Moorer, he was obviously the legitimate lineal champ.

    However, Foreman declined to fight the top contenders and was stripped of his belts by mid-1995 (I think).

    What we were left with was a pretty messy situation. Foreman was technically still the lineal champ, but it's hard to recognize him as champ when he wasn't fighting the best competition.

    I think lots of experts at that time considered Bowe-Holyfield III to be a an unofficial fight for the title of best heavyweight. Some looked at Riddick Bowe as the uncrowned champ following the fight. Considering what happened to Bowe against Andrew Golota in 1996, however, hindsight tells us Bowe probably wasn't the best heavyweight after Foreman relinquished his belts.

    Of course, a very large number of people at the time basically stopped paying attention to anything that didn't involve the fresh-out-of-prison Mike Tyson. I think a lot of people recognized him as champion when he quickly disposed of Bruno and Seldon to capture some belts.

    As with Bowe, in hindsight, Tyson may not have been close to as good as people thought he was at the time. It became clear against Evander Holyfield how much he had slipped.


    From Tyson-Holyfield I to Holyfield-Lewis I, the American public viewed Evander Holyfield as the legitimate champion. He had some belts, and he had beaten the biggest name in boxing. However, Lennox Lewis could make a strong case for having been the best heavyweight during that period. After all, neighther he nor Holyfield had the lineal title, since there was no real lineal title to be had. Just alphabet belts.


    Of course, after Holyfield-Lewis I, there was really no doubt about who the champ should be. The two heavyweights with the strongest claims to the title met, and Lewis (should have) won.



    My question to you is, which fighters do you recognize as having held the title of best heavyweight between the time Foreman lost his belts and Holyfield-Lewis I?
     
  2. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Bowe or Holyfield were the most established and what was considered the best. Lewis was still finding his way with his ko loss to Mcall and struggle with Mercer.
    Bruno, Botha, Seldon were all just Don King manufactured champions at that stage with Bruno or Moorer (who eventually lifted the IBF belt back), probably being the best of the belt holders.

    David Tua, and Ike Ibeabuchi were emerging as the most promising prospects.
    I never thought too much of Rahman, Briggs, Izon, Savarese or Nicholson when they were trying to make their marks.
     
  3. cotto20

    cotto20 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    For me it was big george he beat the man who beat the man who beat the man who beat pre jail tyson
     
  4. CF Gauss

    CF Gauss Member Full Member

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    I agree that Bruno, Botha and Seldon were just manufactured champs. That's partly why I posed this question.

    As I said, Bowe and Holyfield were considered the big names, and after their third fight, some people considered Bowe the uncrowned champ. But we saw in 1996 just how much he had slipped. So in hindsight, it is probably inaccurate to say Bowe was briefly the best heavyweight in 96-96.

    You weren't very explicit about picking any particular fighters as best durign the period in question, but I take it you are going with Holyfield?
     
  5. CF Gauss

    CF Gauss Member Full Member

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    Big George definitely earned the title. But he could not claim to be champ when the only guys he fought in the two years after winning the title were Axel Schulz and Crawford Grimsley.
     
  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I'd consider it to be vacant. Tyson lost decisively to Holyfield and lost his license with it. Bowe got thrashed and retired by Polish Andrew Golota. Lennox Lewis, in turn, destroyed Golota and avenged his loss to McCall. Holyfield avenged his loss to Moorer and of course knocked out Tyson. Of all heavyweights, Lewis and Holyfield had the best resumes between 1994 and 1999, but neither stuck out and i'd say the title was vacant until they squared off.
     
  7. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Not to mention he should've definitely lost the title to Schulz, making him the first German champion in 60 years of boxing..
     
  8. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I actually thought Tua was the best at that time. When he was fighting under and around 230, he looked pretty devastating. He could be outboxed, but he seemed to always catch up to his opponent in the later rounds, and I didnt think the older guys could handle his pace over 12 rounds. He had beaten solid young fighters, Izon, Rahman, Ibebuchi, Maskaev, Sullivan, Nicholson.
    I knew Bowe was shot, Holy was just so dam inconsistent and looked terrible against a shot Bowe. Lewis really didnt impress me until after his fight with Mercer, so I wasnt sure he was ready as he still seemed to be finding himself with Steward.
     
  9. cotto20

    cotto20 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    tua did not beat ike, and back then lewis and evander would of boxed tua's head off.
     
  10. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    That's so silly and disrespectful to Holyfield.
     
  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    It goes like this.

    Foreman-Tyson-Holyfield-Lewis.
     
  12. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I recognize Foreman as the champ, then Briggs, then Lewis. Foreman never lost his title until the Briggs fight because he didn't lose a fight, nor did he ever retire.

    If boxing were a little more organized, that is, if there were only one champion per division and no Don King manufactured titleholders, you could make a great case for stripping Foreman of his title for not fighting a leading contender. But since boxing can't seem to decide who the leading contenders really are, I'll cling to the perhaps antiquated notion of "lineal champion".

    As far as who was the BEST heavyweight during that time, I'd have to go with Tyson-Holyfield-Lewis in that order. I don't think that Foreman has been the best heavyweight in the world since 1974. He wasn't in 1994-95 any more than Leon Spinks was in 1978 or lineal champion Michael Spinks was from 1986 to June 88.
     
  13. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Why? Let's not forgot he lost to Bowe in the rubber match and looked less than stellar on a few occasions as well - for instance against Cyzc, or his close fight with Mercer.
     
  14. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Foreman was the rightful champ.

    We cant have it both ways, I mean if we going to "Strip" Foreman of being champ, we might as well strip Sullivan, Corbett, Dempsey, Willard, Johnson, Patterson, and Braddock for not faceing the best.
     
  15. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    In my opinion: Moorer - Foreman - Briggs - Lewis.