Who do you think GGG will fight next?

Agree. Murata seems a legit threat to Golovkin. Munguia has the power and youth but I didn't like what I saw vs Tureano and I think GGG flatlines him.

 

Yeah, Murata's a more polished product in my humblest of opinions. He's also one of those guys that, when he has a chance to study his opponents and sees what works and doesn't work, absolutely flatline them. His only real weakness (and it's a big one, admittedly) is that if things don't go his way he doesn't have the ability to 'switch it up'.

 

What impresses me about Murata is his energy. It's like he has an extra battery or something. That could be a real problem for an older fighter like GGG. If Golovkin is unable to hurt him early in order to gain some respect Murata could possibly wear him down in a series of rasping attacks.

 

GGG said he'd move up to Super Middleweight for the right fight:

https://www.ringtv.com/522945-gennady-golovkin-ill-move-super-middleweight-right-fight/

I'd personally like to see GGG vs Plant happen, and the winner fight the winner of Canelo vs BJS.

 

If he stays at Middleweight, then he could fight the winner of Andrade vs Liam Williams, or Chris Eubank Jr.

 

It was the way in which he won the early rounds that made it a schooling. Schooling someone is about being the ring general, using footwork to set traps and counter. Also in the 4th round how he taught GGG how to fight off the ropes. He was schooling him in that regard. It took GGG a couple of rounds to land some meaningful punches. In the 5th round he did that, and finally got himself into the fight. The rounds GGG won in the first match, he won with activity, not by putting on a clinic like Canelo was doing early on, it was just that GGG started getting more offense in and started to outwork and outland him which he wasn't doing early on.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. When did I say GGG was a bum? If you've been paying attention, I gave GGG plenty of praise and credit for both matches. I scored the rematch 7-5 and thought GGG did better than the first fight, because he came into the rematch with a better plan to use his boxing skill, work behind the jab, rather than not have any plan and just chase Canelo around the ring like he did the first time. That style GGG fought in the rematch, while more effective technically, still wasn't enough to keep Canelo from landing considerably more power punches on him and inflicting more damage. Unlike the first time, Canelo stayed in the pocket, and just loaded up on power punches. GGG while showcasing good footwork and movement, isn't that quick on his feet so he wasn't able to get out of range on Canelo and keep his distance like Canelo was able to do the first time when GGG was the aggressor. The difference is that while GGG relied on the jab in the rematch to keep the more aggressive Canelo off, he wasn't able to use his footspeed to keep Canelo at range, which allowed Canelo to target the body and land power punches with far more regularity than GGG was able to connect on him in the first fight. It also was a very defensive-oriented style and this was after GGG called for a Mexican-Style Toe-to-Toe war. So it didn't suit GGG to fight such a negative fight after criticizing Canelo for fighting in such a way the first time.

That's what you're saying, I've not said anything like that. We were comparing Canelo vs GGG, you were arguing that GGG was better because he "arguably" beat Canelo twice. I reminded you that not only has Canelo beat GGG, but he also has more wins and has faced tougher opposition. How you go from there to JCC being better than Floyd or Canelo being better than SRL, I have no idea. You just completely made that up to deflect from the Canelo vs GGG comparison which you brought up. # of wins is only one factor to look at, also winning %, also how many times you've been KO'd. What you deem as a favorable decision is subjective. I've made the point before that you can accuse pretty much any fighter of getting gift decisions. JCC got the draw vs Sweet Pea. Most people think Mayweather lost to Castillo the first time and to Maidana. SRL himself admitted that the rematch with Hearns which was scored a draw, he said Tommy really deserved to win that one. So win-loss aren't the be all end all, but they are certainly a big factor when comparing greats, even if you argue there were some favorable decisions in there. You can make that argument about pretty much any fighter.

I do appreciate both fighters and agree both are great fighters and I enjoyed both fights. I don't see it as defending Canelo, I'm just breaking down what happened and pointing out where I disagree with what you're saying. I could make the same argument that you were defending GGG pretty hard there with your views about their first match.

 

Fanboys are as common as haters. Just to clear the air, I'd like to know what think of the below. Answers to quick questions.

1 ) Who do you think won GGG vs Canelo 1?

2 ) In your opinion, did Canelo wait for GGG to age a bit and slow down before taking the match at age 35? After all GGG had way more fights if you include the amateurs and was clearly better at say 33?

3 ) The vast majority of the media ( I have about 50 media cards ) and punch stats think GGG won the fight. When a guy lands 40 more punches, out lands the other guy in 10 or 12 rounds, in a fight by with knockdown or points taken he's the winner like 95% of the time.

4 ) Would you say the judge who had it 118-110 was not fit to judge? She determined the draw.

5 ) What factor if any does Canelo on PED's mean in these fights? GGG tested clean

Respectfully,

 

He does get the benefit of the doubt, that's why he has one loss instead of 5.

 

Golovkin should have 4 losses, but he gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

Canelo. Winning rounds 1-4, 10-12 plus arguably rounds 5 and/or 6. GGG won rounds 7-9, even while losing rounds 7-9, Canelo still landed the biggest single shot in each of those rounds. Let that sink in for a moment. There wasn't a single round that GGG won clearly and landed the best single shot in the round.

I don't personally think he did. I think it had more to do with the actions of the WBC who gave him a 15-day timetable following the Khan bout. He was basically forced to vacate the title in a way that was completely unprecedented. He couldn't negotiate within such a timetable because he had a court case pending involving his former promoter. The WBC requiring him to fight GGG as his next fight after Khan was reasonable, but it was not reasonable to give him that 15-day timetable. Had he been allowed to negotiate freely with GGG after fighting Khan, the match would have likely been made for September 2016.

Now I get why GGG fans point to this and accuse him of ducking and aging GGG a year. However to make that argument would be to ignore all the other factors in play at that time. It all stems from a lack of respect and the WBC not treating him fairly, him still essentially being a Light Middleweight and naturally wanting to fight someone else at Middleweight weight before stepping in with the Middleweight king. He also wanted to recapture a Light Middleweight Title before leaving that division as his 154-lb reign was unceremoniously ended by Mayweather at a catchweight. It's unusual for a fighter to move up a weight class and fight the best fighter at that weight right away. Now granted, he was the MW Champ by beating Cotto, but Cotto was not a true Middleweight, he was a blown up 154-lb who never beat a real Middleweight at the limit. Usually you fight a lowered tiered opponent when you move up, to get accostomed to the weight first, rather than the top fighter in the division. When Usyk moved up to Heavyweight, he didn't challenge Fury or Wilder now did he. No, he fought a couple of journeymen. When RJJ moved up to Heavyweight, he didn't fight Lennox Lewis or Vitali, he fought John Ruiz who was considered the worst of the HW Champs at that time. So Canelo was being forced to fight GGG as his first match at 160 against an actual Middleweight, which was a big ask. I think he simply wanted to move up normally, which would consist of fighting an actual Middleweight first, then take on GGG.

So I don't think it had anything to do with Canelo himself specifically trying to age GGG. Now I can't speak for De La Hoya, that could have been his strategy, but you can't pin that on Canelo. Canelo wasn't his own promoter like Mayweather was when he was ducking Pacquiao, not for 1 year but for about 5 or 6 years. What a lot of people did was act like Canelo handled his business like Mayweather did. That's not the case, unlike Mayweather, Canelo was not in charge of his own promotion. he was a young kid who put his trust in De La Hoya and Golden Boy to manage his career. He was being dictated to by the WBC who was trying to give GGG the upper hand in negotiations, which was completely un-called for. After what he had experienced with Mayweather, being dictated to, being pulled down to a catchweight, he was not going to let anyone give him timetables or dictate terms to him. He had a goal to recapture a 154-lb title before moving up and challenging GGG, because 154-lb was his division and he felt it was important to move up to the next weight class as a Champ at that weight, especially after being accused of not being a real MW Champ because he won that title at a catchweight. Canelo did it the right way, he vacated the MW title, fought Liam Smith, won the TItle at 154-lb and then the next year moved up to Middlewieght the way he should have originally.=

The sports media generally favors come forward fighters who throw more punches. GGG was seen as the Champ at Middleweight, he was undefeated, the expectation that GGG was unbeatable and Canelo had no chance had a lot to do with the vast majority of the media scoring it for GGG. Much of the reasoning as to why they scored it for GGG was from the argument that to beat the Champ, you have to take it to the Champ. Anotherwords you can't dethrone a Champion by outboxing him, you have to come forward and walk through him. While some people believe in this principle, that there's an inherent Champion's advantage and close rounds should go to the Champ. In reality, the Champion's advantage is that if the match is a draw the Champ keeps the title. Not that he gets to win close rounds because he's the Champ. So that played a major role in why the vast majority scored it for GGG. He was coming forward, throwing more punches, he as the Champ therefore and he should win. If you go into the match with these expectations you already have the deck stacked against Canelo. If you just score the match straight up on ring generalship and clean effective punching, Canelo wins. Expectations carry a lot of weight when it comes to how matches are scored by TV people.

I would also point out that you're citing Compubox numbers to support the argument that GGG won. Every time I bring up Compubox numbers, people come at me for using punch stats and claim they can't be relied on for scoring. I tend not to rely on Compubox number though in some cases I think they're worth mentioning. There was also a controversy in the 5th round in which the live HBO punch stats had Canelo landing several more punches in Round 5, a round that 2 judges scored for GGG, while Byrd scored it for Canelo. The HBO live punch stats were on Canelo's side that round as can be seen in the live telecast, however the post-fight punch stats mysteriously had GGG landing more punches that round. That was highly suspicious for the punch stats of that round to have changed from having Canelo land more punches to after the fight having GGG landing more punches. We never got any sort of explanation for that discrepancy making the punch stats even more suspicious and unreliable than usual. Note - I scored round 5 to GGG in a very close rounds, but Canelo has a great case of winning that round as he dominated the first half of the round until GGG finally stepped it up and landed some shots in the final minute, like that one with Canelo on the ropes when he shook his head.

She determined the draw not by how wide she scored it for Canelo, but because she didn't score it for GGG. If she would have scored it 7-5 to Canelo, or even a draw, it would still have been a draw. It was a little wide for me, but again it goes back to the fact that GGG didn't really win many rounds clearly. And the rounds he did outwork Canelo, he was still getting tagged with big shots occasionally which can swing a round.

I disagreed with how she scored sevaral rounds. She gave the 4th round to GGG, I thought Canelo won it. The 5th round, while I gave it to GGG, there's definitely an argument Canelo won it. Some people gave the 6th round to Canelo, so her scoring that to Canelo is reasonable. I agreed with her scoring of the 7th round to GGG, but giving Canelo the 8th and the 9th were a bit of a stretch as Canelo was outworked despite landing the best single shot. Byrd must have been impressed by those big right hands in the 8th and 9th round, and maybe felt those were enough to swing the round.

Since we're discussing the first match, PEDs weren't a factor. Both fighters tested clean.

 

So how many rounds you think Canelo took that night?

Tbh im only going on a very brief recollection of the night

Never felt the need to watch it back again in full

 

Mendoza with some next level baiting. Shadow is going to write 50000 words to this and nobody will read them

 

I had it 8-4 to Golovkin both fights.

 

Oh hold on

I was talking about Floyd vs Canelo

 

LOL Canelo didn't win many rounds, sorry. He looked like an icecream salesman in that one