Who do you think was the best middleweight titlist between Walker and Zale?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Sep 7, 2015.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Interesting post, thanks.
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    On his day he was something special.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It's a bit low but not outrageous imo. Thil initially seems ok but then decides he isn't, its not clear and only he knew how bad the pain was .I grew up being told he did not have a lot of heart ,rather like a middleweight Phil Scott.
    You made me look at his career again, but I have to say he doesn't seem to have any appetite for continuing there.
     
  4. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Again, he had been fouled numerous times prompting several warnings. I dont really see any delay. He gets hit low, looks low to me when you take into account the angle its shot at, and doubles over and begins to walk to a corner as soon as they are broken. He has always been painted as a guy who was protected both in and out of the ring but what I see is a very strong, physical fighter who these guys like Broulliard, Jones, McAvoy, etc couldnt cope with. He was even winning handily against Apostoli when that fight was stopped on a cut. His resume is pretty darn good for that era as well. I dont see him as a quitter at all. I think he was a rugged, skilled guy who had the misfortune of being born on the wrong side of the Atlantic ocean at a time when the American press was at jingoistic worst.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He did a lot of very good things; but I don't think the evidence shows he was hit in the cup here. He could have been - it's possible that the knuckle of the glove landed low, the film is blurred enough that that could happen without being seen, but I don't personally believe that this fight film shows a low blow.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Was there beef between Carpantier and Thil?
     
  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Im not sure offhand. Why? Have you heard something?
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Not really, no. But Carpantier was adamant that the low blow in the second fight was "a tremendous uppercut to the liver" and not a low blow at all. I can't understand why he would say this unless there was some issue, or it were true.
     
  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Was he talking about the third fight or the second?
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  11. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Ok, I thought we were still talking about the third. Ill have to pull a good copy of the second and see. Here is what one french account said that I have translated:

    Le Figaro

    Marcel thil remains the world's Middleweight champion, Lou Broulliard was disqualified in the fourth for an illegal punch. At this time, Thil had acquired a definite advantage on points and Lou Broulliard had been been reminded of the rules twice by the Swiss referee, Mr. Nicod, for foul boxing, including head butts.

    At the beginning of the fourth round, Lou Broulliard landed a significantly low blow that was worth the remonstrances of the arbitrator. However Thil is collapsed in the ring. After consultation with the other two judges, one Spanish, the other french, referee - a judge himself - there was unanimity that Lou Broulliard should be disqualified.

    It is very unfortunate that this meeting has ended this way. Lou Broulliard and his managers protested violently against the decision. Broulliard, who we saw after the contest, told us with his Canadian accent:

    "I am sure it landed on the stomach. It also carries the red mark at the bottom of the abdomen and if there is justice, the accuracy of my statement will be recognized."

    We can discuss the matter until we are out of breath. There is only one certainty. It is unanimity of the three judges including two completely neutral, respectively Swiss and Spanish, who acknowledged the foul blow.

    After this will we see a third match bweteen Thil and Brouillard? We do not believe it. Comments among the spectators - especially among those who paid a high price - were hardly favorable to the Organization of a third meeting and suggest that much of the public would not want to watch a third edition considering Thil twice has won.
    Maybe this third match will be it in Canada! Champion of the world will agree to cross the Atlantic to put into play this title that He holds four years?


    Here is another:

    Le Monde Illustre

    An Account of the match: Thil-Broulliard

    The Broulliard-Thil meeting

    Forgetting, for one evening, the concerns of the time, political meetings, or the daily grind, the large sporting audience of Paris, greatly increased by many provincial and foreign parties who rushed here, Monday night at the Sports Palace where the popular Boxer Marcel Thil, middleweight champion of the world , was defending his title, once again, before the Canadian Lou Brouillard.

    This event was eagerly anticipated by thousands in Paris and in many other countries. As early as six o'clock in the evening, countless press colleagues stood ready to announce to the world the victory first. They cnever eased to besiege telephone booths and spoke all languages.

    After the preliminary fights, skilfully matched to build the enthusiasm, the two stars appeared on the ring: Thil, quiet and cold, Brouillard, pretty nervous.

    Immediately, the gossips said that the Canadian "seemed not normal", that he had swallowed some 'pill' or some Satanic «beverage»! But ****son, the organizer of the match, smiling and happy with her receipt for eight hundred thousand francs, hastened to say the contrary.

    However, from the start the lack of poise by Brouillard intrigued the fans. Why did he not seek to steady his nerves rather than attack wildly, furious, angry, brutal sometimes, prompting foul blows. Why could he not penetrate the defense? Also, Thil had more points and more supporters; and when during the sixth round, Lou Brouillad struck low, our world champion Thil had a very distinct advantage to his credit.

    Thil, breaking under the painful blow, then lost an opportunity to triumph! Some quickly cried foul and sang the victory of their wicked-Lou by K.O.! . Judges fortunately "saw" the low blow. They immediately disqualified foul Brouillard, reducing to a fairer reality his turbulant supporters!

    However, the decision is not yet accepted by all! America, without delay, attributed to Brouillard a 'clear victory '. A few french, to play the smart critics, were pointed away from this thesis! The fight film will destroy the American contention, it will point out these stupid reporters chauvinism and enable them to faithfully recognize their mistake.

    As for us, we absolutely predicted this unfortunate move - having noted several times the unfortunate adoption by a very low stance by Brouillard, too low. The ardor of the exchanges, the extraordinary excitement of the Canadian champion, truly mauled by Thil in the sixth round, soon made him lose all control of his shots. His stance, fatal for him, made the outcome inevitable. He has stupidly deprived Thil of a real victory. And who knows if the terrible Canadian youth might not have triumphed over the resistance of Thil?

    While in the middle of a monstrous ruckus, the boxers withdrew to their dressing rooms. Very noisy, angry voices, and sometimes threatening, some more ridiculous critics argued that a low blow could not "fell" a champion, with a very modern protective cup.

    Fake, said one to another, conspiracy, cried others.

    The truth is fortunately simple. Thil played no false comedy; Brouillard's fouls were not always calculated. His bad mood even and his defiant attitude towards the perfect arbitrator must be excused.

    It is not permissible for all boxers to keep their composure when they vie for a World Championship.

    Bruno-Ch. PELISSIER.


    The accounts of the third fight were very similar. They say that Thil was ahead and was rocking Broulliard and hurting him before Broulliard blatantly fouled to save himself.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What's that stuff about a "satanic pill" Broulliard is supposed to have swallowed?
     
  13. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I dont know. I couldnt really translate it well enough to understand it but it kind of read like there was a rumor going around ringside that Brouillard had taken some kind of stimulant which made him hyper, wild, and agitated and this is why he appeared so nervous before the fight and why he couldnt seem to control his punches during the fight.