Who do you think was the most overrated heavyweight boxer ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Claw4075, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, again, i'm not interested in an era on era debate about opposition.

    What i'm interested in is a fighter's meeting and performing against the best or second best (Especially) fighter of his era. There will generally be numerous opportunities to do so. With Vitali, it's different because he had his brother, so we look instead against the second and third best (Excepting himself) when one slot is taken by his bro.

    Vitali's record: 0-2. Utterly pitiful.

    You want to compare him to Liston. OK. Beat the best contender excepting himself to get his title shot and then beat the best heavy in the world to win the title then thrashed a top contender in his first defence.

    You want to say that the second is overrated and the first isn't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  2. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know what overrated means and I know he wasn’t invincible, I’m not sure I’ve ever read anyone on here saying he was.
     
  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If some of Muhammad Ali's fights in the 1970's would have gone against him, you could be sure that a rematch would have been in order. In the later stages of his career, Ali did not like to train, unlike his first title reign, (1964-1967), when he appeared to be always in shape. Ali liked the night life and the attention of the media, but in his later stage, money was to be made, so a rematch brings in a bigger revenue. I thought the 1976 title defenses against Jimmy Young and Ken Norton could have gone against Ali.
     
  4. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne’s life coach. Full Member

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    This for me.
     
  5. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    Liston lost to Ali (took a dive), lost to Leotis Martin, lost to Marty Marshall.

    He is 0-2 against the one notable name he fought, and 0-2 against two less reputable ones.

    He is worse in everyway compared to VK. Pummeling Maachen, Patterson doesn't make him a monster.
     
  6. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

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    You probably don't read that much then
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    How can he be "worse in everyway compared to VK" when he's clearly better against the best fighters of his generation? Aided by the fact that he actually managed to fight more than one of them :lol:
     
  8. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    0-4 is worse than 0-2.

    Taking a dive after losing the first match really doesn't show Liston's superiority against the best fighter of his generation.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, but you're just randomly selecting Liston opponents and then adding them together :lol:

    Vital's record versus top two contenders under the condition described: 0-1

    Liston's record versus top two: 3-2.
     
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  10. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    Vitali did not fight his own brother, that is better than losing to Ali twice.
    Losses matter, McGrain. Had VK lost twice to scrubs like Liston did I am sure you would mention that.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:

    So does the level of competition.

    I don't get into lengthy discussions about heavyweights these days. Too painful. A forum full of people who think they know better because their hero...well, he's the one.

    What I said: Vitlai is overrated because what people say bout him - what you say about him - was in no way reflected by the reality of his own real world career. Vitali did not prove himself because his level of opposition was extremely low for a fighter provided with so much fantasy - the operative word - head to head criteria.

    All of this is absolutely irrefutable.
     
  12. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    An apt description of Ali acolytes.
    The entire forum pretty much runs on fantasy fights. Pardon me if I don't think the crusher of blown up LHWs and small cruisers can be put in the same category as modern HWs.
    To refute something there first must be an argument. You failed to produce that argument.
    Non-existent arguments cannot be refuted, so everything you say is irrefutable.:oops:
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Every champion heavyweight of meaning has his acolytes.


    Vitlai is overrated because what people say bout him - what you say about him - was in no way reflected by the reality of his own real world career.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    On the other hand, Vitali did prove himself (in terms of the ATG company his acolytes want him to keep) very good at beating up low level competition. Like Wilder, i'd be happy to pick him over guys ranked 7,8,9 and 10 very consistently in every era, I'd say that's safe.
     
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  15. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Definitely VK. He's one of the very few in history who lost a passing of the torch fight. Wasn't good enough to take it from the aging champ with one foot out the door.
    On top of that he never beat an array of different styles. Opponents were flat footed , non athletic and washed up / years past prime i.e Peters and Sanders.
    There's no win on his resume that suggests he should be favorite over all the ATGs and elite level boxers in history yet he'd routinely picked to beat them.