What does it take to beat a bit prime, on top of his game Louis? Movement, a good jab, swarming him, a massive puncher?. Just curious because schmeling, Charles and rocky all beat him with differing styles. I no Charles and rock beat a old Joe and max a young over confident one but but what style will beat a prime Joe?
It is a good question. The person who came closest to finding the bullet was Billy Conn. He used a combination of boxing ability, speed, smart use of distance, and educated pressure. Perhaps if you could make a 200lb fighter that worked in the same way, you would have the man who had Louis's number?
Louis can impose his size on Marciano and put some hurt behind that jab. Plus Louis had quicker feet than Rocky so could step to the side and bang hard combinations in. I think Louis can really put a beating on Rocky, so the question is whether or not Rocky is durable enough to whether the storm and wear Louis down late, I don't think he can. Frazier has faster hands and feet plus better head movement. He can back Louis up and force him to fight in the trenches. I also think Louis wins that one. I think Frazier could have more success but both lose.
I think u hit the nail on the head janitor with that description. Would have to be able to move a fair bit, jab well and confident, good solid over hand right I believe would clinch it, a decent chin cos you're going to need it with Joe. What about a buster Douglas in Tokyo?? I reckon that night he had the attributes to beat a prime Joe. But his concentration couldn't waver for a milli second
The people, who had the most success against Louis, were not people who tried to stay away from him. This just gave him room to do what he wanted. The people who were most successful seem to have fought defensively, while still taking the fight to him. Then he seemed to malfunction in some ways.
That's why in a way Douglas came to mind. He wasn't exactly dancing around the ring with tyson but being as defensive as much as u had to with Mike. But he was taking the fight to him as physically as he had to. Thats why he could have success against a peak Joe. But of course Joe would nt be just loading up on one shot like tyson was a lot of the time in Tokyo. So would have to be someone extremely talented and skilled to beat him at his best.
Great answers here. Frazier was bigger, faster, and more suffocating. But I think Marciano's chin was better, and he would throw punches off rhythm so he could be quite awkward. The 1st Charles fight shows this. If you look at first half of the fight (on what footage exists), before the avalanche for Charles that was the last half of the fight, Marciano is definitely getting schooled. Despite this, he is getting some hard shots in on Charles. And he gets them in because of his awkwardness, broken rhythym, and willingness to punch with Charles. The problem no one seems to mention is Frazier and Marciano are both going to get hit by a puncher whose package of power, accuracy, speed, punch selection and combination ability is unrivaled in heavyweight boxing history. Is Marciano's chin, awkwardness and better two handed attack enough to offset a paragon of techical punching like Louis? Marciano remarked on the power of a diminished Louis jab in 1951. What would that jab do in 1938? And after tasting those Louis power shots that would be harder than anyone he ever faced, would they make him slightly more cautious? I think his knockdown against Walcott was a big reason it took 13 rounds to win a fight he was losing. Still, I make Marciano a slightly less than 2 to 1 underdog, largely because Louis chin was not granite and the two fisted attack would be hard to fend off in the late rounds. The crouching off center lean of Marciano is also more efficient stamina wise than the bob and weave. Louis by KO before round 8. If it goes 15 rounds Marciano has a fair chance at a decision Frazier has much faster feet than Marciano, so he can close quickly through the mid range where he would be best served staying out of. His volume and body attack should win most of the late rounds, but to win he has to win most of the mid rounds. In a 15 round fight I see Frazier knocked out in rounds 3 to 5. If he gets past round 6 he has a shot, but I see him on the canvas at some point that in a 10 point must system will be another hill to climb to get a decision. If its a rounds won scoring, it bodes better for Frazier. I would make Louis a 2 to 1 favorite over Frazier.
Well Marciano was never knocked out and only suffered a pair of flash knockdowns... so I think it's fair he gets the nod in the chin department. As far as hitting harder... look at the impact and force of his best shots compared to Joe's. imo.. Rocky's shots look the more jolting. Hard to completely know though.. just my opinion
I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that Marciano would have been dispatched the same way Frazier was. Foreman's heavy hands would have knocked Marciano farther across the ring considering he was lighter than Frazier. Therefore it is not fair to say that Marciano had a better chin. Frazier fought bigger and stronger men. Who's to say that he wouldn't have walked through Walcott's and Moore's punches? He was a bigger relentless dog than Marciano. Who hits harder is debatable. We all know what Marciano can do to 185lb fighters and a washed up 200lb great. But what about prime 200lb+ men that Frazier frequently wrecked? That's why I think it is a fantasy to say that Marciano is superior in both.
Its also definitely not fair to say Frazier had a better chin than Rocky. Lol! 49-0 with one of the best KO percentages in history. You have your opinion.. I have mine.