Who does Marciano beat?

Who Does Marciano Beat? After living through his reign, knowing the man, and seeing him fight live a few times, my gut tells me he'd beat a whole lot more modern fighters than many people think, and I think he puts some of the ones he may, or may not, beat through h*ll along the way, especially boxers and other swarmer type fighters.

 

I explained it. Because of amateurs. If someone’s been working the same style for five years as an amateur they aren’t going to learn a new one most likely. You’re also making the assumption that no one used it when I pointed out Tua and Qawi who are extremely similar to Marciano using a crouch and lean style. Wouldn’t you agree they’re more like Marciano then Frazier or Tyson (who don’t even fight alike themselves) Qawi being more refined then both and Tua being less refined then the others. They are clearly more like Marciano in that they use the crouch and lean.

 

Did you see any fights not on film?

 

Three, in person. Marciano - Louis. Marciano - Walcott 1. Marciano - Charles 1. Had I known that Moore was going to be his last fight, I would have tried harder to get to see that 1. (With what was going on in my life at that time, it would have been difficult but doable.)

 

Walcott 1 must have been a crazy affair! One of my favorite fights.

 

This simply isn't true. Foreman, Joshua, Whyte, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mayweather, etc all learned new styles in the middle of their pro career changing how they operated as amateurs and young pros.

This seems like a cop out excuse because you don't have those restrictions in the pros. Nobody becomes a pro making zero changes to their style. Some guys even hire brand new trainers in the middle of their pro career well into their late 20's or 30's with changes to their style. Dipping low was only one aspect of Marcianos game plan. You even have some Tyson fights where he does just that dipping super low to duck punches so clearly this wasn't some lost subtle art that no modern trainers thought to treat shorter guys. That isn't a good enough explanation for why nobody teaches guys to fight like Marciano.

I said I don't feel like talking about Tua and Qawi but you insist so ok. Despite what Choklab claims, Qawi fought very different from Marciano. He did not dip low and at a right angle with his weigh on the rear leg like Marciano, he fought on the front foot. Marciano used Duran like head movement or just tucked his chin and held a tight guard. Qawis head movement was more like a Frazier. He did not have an Orthodox guard like Marciano, he had a cross arm guard. He did not throw big wild hooks and uppercuts like Marciano, be threw lots of whip like punches in bunches in sequences. Qawi paced himself better and fought more methodically. Qawi was ok with trying to win rounds and outbox his opponents if he couldn't overpower them while that seemed to be Rocky's plan A, B, and C.

As for Tua, his guard was very different from Marciano, but he did lean to the right like him. Tua was much more explosive and was often looking to land one big punch. Tua was busier on the inside and more willing to have a phone booth battle. Tua was a more scientific brawler while Marciano could be much sloppier and often threw himself off balance with his wide swings. Tua was also left hook happy like Frazier, but he also had a MUCH better jab than Marciano who neglected it.

 

Tua was NOT a more scientific brawler. Tuas problem was he couldn’t bend as low as Qawi or Marciano. He also wasn’t as good as them at countering. He wasn’t more explosive then Marciano either (maybe just as) who was explosive himself. They fought very much alike as did Qawi. Qawi would say he wanted to emulate Frazier but he def fought more like Marciano. This to me is obvious on film in that Qawi was ok with allowing opponents to come to him using his crouch and lean where as Frazier and Tyson were always head first. It can get more technical but I’ll keep it at that.
Solid point in regards to people not taking up the style later on in their career after amateurs. But to be fair shorter fighters were always pretty rare at the top. There aren’t anyone who fights like Frazier or Tyson either. But they all kind of take aspects from each other and use what works for them like a good fighter should do. Rare you get carbon copies of fighters. I

 

Tua was fundamentally leagues better than Marciano, was bigger, stronger and faster, had better balance, was more explosive. Tua would be outlawed in Marciano's day. Marciano would be Bobby Crabtree in Tua's day.

 

Statistics, film, and results say otherwise yawn.

 

Speaking of Bobby Crabtree his fight with Trevor Berbick, which i see highlight of recently. Was a great little slugfest with Berbick nailing Crabtree with right hands over and over again like a lumberjack.

 

Statistics? On base percentage? Quarterback rating?

Film does Marciano no favors.

Results are based upon opponents. Fighting scrawny geriatrics ain't the same as facing off with prime (roided) specimens weighing 230+.

 

I like how you completely ignored all the drastic differences between Qawi and Marciano that you can see on film. Nothing I wrote was purely opinion based. Qawi had a cross arm guard, fought in the front foot, and had completely different head movement. Their punching mechanics were completely different.

Tuas problems were beyond bending low, that wasn't even his main strong suit. He could go into his shell when hurt, or he could let whole rounds pass him by waiting to land one big hit. He also often neglected his right hand. Tua was far more explosive than Rocky, their power was like night and day. Rocky clubbed his opponents with crude swings and non stop pressure. Tua had a smoother kinetic chain and had better form.

This is why I didn't want to talk about these two because I knew it would become a big back and forth discussion and that you'd inevitably ignore what I wrote.

While it's true there aren't people fighting like Tyson and Frazier today, way more people attempted to copy them than Marciano. You had Bert Cooper, Samuel Peter, and Derick Chisora using some of Frazier's methods. Lots of guys in gyms try to use Tyson's peak a boo style, and you had Patterson before him.

 

Defensive statistics. You know things that come into play when discussing skills.
I’ll take all of those geriatrics to beat Tua except old Louis.
I can give you examples as to why Marciano is leagues better technically then Tua…all you can say is he fought “specimens”. Marciano countered far better then Tua. Got hit way less. He had way more tricks up his sleeve then Tua as in if plan A didn’t work he actually used a plan B C and D. As Tua was far more limited (Marciano had a far superior corner). If you figured Dave out he struggled mightily. He couldn’t cut the ring off half as well as Marciano. Marciano worked the inside better and the body. The only thing Tua had on him was a quicker left hook. Not that Marcianos sucked because it clearly didn’t. Give Marciano steroids and he’s a better form of Tua in every way.

 

I didn’t ignore anything you wrote you ignored my statement. Simply being Qawi and Tua were more akin to Marciano then they were to Frazier and Tyson. You stated no one was like Marciano at all and that’s false. I don’t think you can deny that. As I stated no two great fighters are that extremely alike anyway with very few exceptions at Hw. At HW unique wins and it wins often if the skill sets are properly managed.

Qawi was more skilled then all of them imo. Had more tricks. More polished and you’re right different punching mechanics (I’d like to say more weapons). He lacked the power of the other men and had his own stamina issues but he was a pleasure to watch. I’m no Qawi expert but I did enjoy watching him.

FYI not many people fight like Holyfield or Lewis or Frazier or Wlad doesn’t mean they aren’t great it just means many people can’t do what they did. Tua is the closest thing to Marciano we have gotten in seventy years I’ve stated in the previous post why they differ and why Marciano was more skilled.

 

Can I find these stats on the back of his baseball card? What are you even talking about? Punchstat crap that didn't even exist. How would these stats look if he were facing 6-5 behemoths with 82" reaches and Olympic gold pedigree like Lennox Lewis instead of sawed-off butterballs like Rex Layne and Don Co ckell?

I'm sure you would. And that is not helping your credibility.

When speaking of how often comparable fighters got hit we must consider who was doing the hitting. Was it beasts like Ibeabuchi and Lewis or tiny pensioners like Charles and Walcott?

Marciano was a wee feller, an overachiever that the populace ate up because... oh well, because of demographic reasons.

You ever see the movie Rudy? That's Marciano in a nutshell. Here, I'll give you reminder...

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Tough little overachieving plugger making the most of what little God gave him.