Who Else Could Get A Ko Victory Over Foreman In Zaire??

Foreman would have been jabbing back at Lewis too. Lewis struggled with incoming jabs from Mercer and Holyfield.

Foreman was a better inside fighter than Lewis and a better body puncher. If I was in Lewis' corner the last thing I'd do is tell him to go to close quarters, I'd have him try and maintain the long range and try to time him with right crosses and uppercuts when he got close, then tie him up and back off.

The Lyle fight is a flawed example since this was Foreman after a layoff with his confidence shattered. Gill Clancey changed Foreman's style and he was unsure of himself. Lyle exploited holes in Foreman's defense due to his odd style.

I have doubts Fury's fatass was physically stronger than Ali. The shredded Norton admitted that Ali's strength shocked him and that people underestimate how strong he was in the clinches. Fury's like 30+ lbs of pure flab.

 

Holyfield had a underrated good jab and even at that stage he was much quicker than prime Foreman. I'd give the better of the jabs to Lewis as he had a huge height and reach advantage and i never saw prime Foreman have success with the jab against taller guys. Foreman's pressure would be an issue though

True but Lyles power had him on the canvas 2 or 3 times and he was hurt bad. His chin is good but im sure Lewis could hurt him with a right uptop or an uppercut timed uppercut on the way in. Lewis doesn't have a great chin and KO'd by Mccall and Rahman but it's certainly better than Nortons and he's taken lots of punches from guys who hit harder than those 2 like Tua, Briggs, and Bruno. Regarding the Rahman fight Lewis didn't take him seriously and payed for it. Came back in the immediate rematch and laid him out.

He probably has a lot of muscle under that fat and it might just be his natural physique considering even at his career lowest he's still in the 240s, but even if he didn't, you don't have to be super strong to be the more dominant person in the clinch. Fury is giant at 6'7½ and 250lb-270lb. Foreman i suspect is stronger but Fury would enjoy a massive size advantage in the clinch and we've seen Fury bully men more massive than prime Foreman, like Chisora, that being a testament to his size and strength. It would be way harder for Foreman to get the best of Fury in a clinch than it is of much much smaller guys like Frazier, Young, or Ali. Klitschko we know is strong and bigger than Foreman but he couldn't outmuscle Fury either.

 

Foreman is not Mercer or Holyfield they fight nothing alike it isn't so simple you have to consider the individuality of each fighter. Young 70s George will not be jabbing with Lennox where do you get this idea from?

 

But Mercer was shorter than Foreman and went jab for jab with Lewis.

You can't penalize Foreman for being one of the biggest guys in his era. He didn't avoid any tall fighter and fought the ones he could such as Turnbow, O'Halleran, etc. Never struggled with height alone. You could say the same thing for Lewis who fought only a very small number of guys that were actually taller than him.

I wouldn't call 1 1/2 inches in height a "huge" advantage for Lewis. Foreman's reach also varies it goes anywhere from 78-82 inches depending on the source. Yes Hoylfield had a faster jab, but Foreman's was bludgeoning and could bust eyes up. He stopped the durable Chuvalo with basically just his jab..

I agree,but it's also very interesting that to this day Foreman insists Lyle hurt him more than anyone in his whole career, including his old opponents like Frazier, Norton, or even modern sized opponents like Cooney, Briggs, etc.

I do agree if Lewis lands enough and Foreman doesn't respect him he's going to get rocked hard,but I think Foreman in Zaire didn't respect Ali's power. Everyone was telling him Ali was done for and wasn't known for his power to begin with so he figured he could just eat the shots to land his own. Foreman rarely did that with opponents.

Lewis would have to fight the perfect fight and be very alert. He could not afford to mix it up with Foreman.

Dude we've SEEN old photos of Fury when he was younger, he used to have an impressive physique with a 6 pack. He simply got fat and lazy and is getting by on raw talent and size.

 

From this fight.

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It's a myth Foreman in the 70's didn't jab.

Never said Foreman fought the same as Mercer or Holyfield. I simply said those two gave Lewis lots of problems with their jabs and Foreman arguably has a better jab than both of them. Lewis didn't like being jabbed at.

 

Its not that Lennox didn't like being jabbed at everyone jabs look at what they did with there jabs to have there success. It isn't a 1-1 If X jabs Y then Z can too. Consider the set up, how they threw it ect, ect, ect.

I don't think Chuvalo is a good measuring stick for Georges success with jabbing against Lennox Lewis. It isn't a myth is it? He had a jab but when I see him fighting his toughest comp he never laid back and pecked with them.

 

Good point

Fury is a strong guy though and his size alone means he's likely to be difficult to handle in a clinch, even for super heavyweights. He looked like he handled Klitschko and handled Wilder too. Wilder is skinny but on the night he was 230 pounds. Thats around super heavyweight territory. He manhandled 6'5, 235 Wallin quite easily also and that was a lighter version of Fury

 

Prime Bowe could have a fight at close quarters with George and I believe come out on top

 

In technical terms, Foreman actually looked better against Chuvalo than he did in some later fights. He was actually tracking very well at just 21 yo, quite methodical and well metered, consistently applied power jab.

Maybe his prodigious punch actually robbed him of his initial degree of humility as well as a bit of further experience over more rounds, with George singularly looking for quick time KOs. Leading to Zaire, Foreman wasn’t getting a lot of rounds per fight, not ideal for boxer who had already shown inherent stamina issues.

Given its uniquely fine balance, Zaire is an unusual pick for putting Foreman against other fighters. While Ali’s strategy was brilliant, Foreman’s wasn’t so smart and it paid perfect complement.

There’s also the psychological warfare Ali practiced before and during the fight. George framed as the bad guy, swaying the crowd against him, their literal chanting for Ali to kill him,, all this inducing an absolutely fuming George to want to kill him at first bell. During the fight Ali even talked George into giving his left flank a rest by telling him it didn’t hurt, causing George to switch his focus to the right side of the body. Even George corroborated comments like “Is that all you’ve got sucker?” Who could even gather themselves to say that with bombs going off all around them?

The ropes were also a bit loose of course which served Ali’s rope work, supposedly the ropes were the wrong size for the ring and Dundee said he tightened them as much as possible, which begs the question was he even allowed to touch the ropes himself before the fight?

Anyway, with all the fine nuances that were in play, in reality, I can’t see Foreman fighting anyone else in the same way he fought Ali. If he did, he’d prob still see off the majority of HWs.

i do however feel that prime Liston could cooly weather the early storm and, just as importantly, waste no time pumping heavy artillery right back at George. George might still hold the edge in power but over say 4-5 rds, Sonny’s steady power shots expressed via a much more rounded and metered skill set will put Foreman further and further behind the eight ball before being ultimately KO’d or stopped.

 

Jimmy Young, very late. Due to cumulative exhaustion more than anything.

He probably chooses not to go for it, but he could get it if he tries.

 

People often mistake clinching ability for strength. It is a technique- This is why Ali "man handled" Foreman, Frazier, Norton ect. I have no doubt Foreman and Norton in terms of pure strength are greater... Weight is also much more important in grappling rather then absolute strength and Fury is so much larger then Ali...

 

By the time Foreman fought Lyle he had a new team and was rebuilding his style with the aim to beat Ali or Ali type fighters. The way he fought Lyle wasn't even a thing for him at the time of Zaire.

 

Tyson, Lewis, Vitali

 

Kinshasha Zaire Foreman wasn't his best version in the 70's.
Ali had taken him completely out of his game and in my opinion
beat him well before they stepped in the ring.
Ali so enraged Foreman before and during the fight he possibly
fought the dumbest fight in heavyweight championship history.
Of the many heavyweight champs in history only Ali could
get under an opponent's skin to that point.
(Fury possibly could, but would he have the ability to weather
the storm, deflect, parry, and ride punches ,withstand the
brutal body shots Ali absorbed)
Any of the other heavyweight champs wouldn't play psychological
warfare to the extreme of Ali, they would face a more calculated
and patient version of Foreman.
That version of Foreman defeat most heavies in history.
Possible exceptions are Lewis, Holmes, Liston, possibly
Tyson , Holyfield, and Bowe at their very best.
But none of them would stop Foreman though they could
get a dec.