Who fought better versions of Langford, Jeannette and Mcvey? Johnson or WIlls?

I'll post the excerpts in a little bit.

 

FACT McVey was in the top ranking of heavyweights endeavouring to land a title fight with Jeffries ,and a promoter was high enough on his chances of putting up a good fight to guarantee Jeffries $20,000 to defend against him.
FACT I have seen all the footage out there of Sam McVey that is available.
FACT Nobody knows how many fights McVey had when he fought Johnson.
FACT McVey was 207lbs of muscle and bone 17pounds heavier than Johnson.

 

FACT. Dempsey twice refused to fight Langford whilst under the management of John Reisler this was in1916 and 1917.he knew he simply wasn't ready for such a fight.
FACT. There is no documented evidence/proof that Dempsey ever refused to fight Langford in1920 .
By then Langford was an irrelevance as far as the title was concerned .
His own manager had wanted him to retire in1915!
FACT. Joe Woodman, Langford's manager walked away in the middle of 1919whenLangford refused to retire.
Had Dempsey defended his title against the 37years old,fat , nearly blind Langford he would have been castigated from pillar to post for taking advantage of a former great fighter now sadly past his best!
My research is awful?
FACT . Godfrey was a novice and former pupil of Sam's when he met Langford.
FACT. Langford fought Thompson TWICE in 1920 but he LOST their first fight inApril on points over 15 rds ,he won the second in November an 8 rounder by decision.
FACT. Langford fought Clark twice in1920 winning their January fight but only drawing their next one in February .
FACT. Joe Borker was a journeyman, him beating Langford illustrates how far Sam had slipped by 1920.
FACT. Langford lost to Big Bill Tate in September of 1920, Tate was Dempsey's regular sparring partner.
FACT. Langford lost to unheralded Lee Anderson in October 1920.
FACT. To show these were not fluke losses Langford lost to both Tate and Anderson in 1921 as well!
In fact he fought Anderson 3 times in 1921 managing to win just one of the three contests!
You mentioned Willie Meehan? Langford lost to him he previous year1919!

Seems my research is a bit more accurate than yours!
Now you can focus on myself instead of the issuesif you like ,it will help you to avoid answering awkward questions from me such as my repeated requests for you to provide one single offer of $30,000 for a defence against either Langford,McVey ,or Jeannette that Johnson refused!

Source of my research CLAY MOYLE Acknowledged expert on Langford!
A word of advice ,don't attempt humour not until you have mastered joined up writing and can construct a legible sentence.
I look forward to your rebuttal of these proven facts.

 

Here’s the issue I have..in one post you say Dempsey ducked Langford in 1917 because Sam was too good

Then in another post you say Langford’s manager wanted him to retire in 1915


So which is it, was Langford washed up in 1915 ready for retirement or was he still dangerous enough 2 years later that the great jack Dempsey refused to fight him?

If it’s the ladder, then wills should get a tremendous amount of credit for fighting Sam in 1914-15

 

Aside from the article posted by McVea (the poster), there are multiple sources in Adam Pollacks biography of Jeffries, calling for Jeffries to defend his title against McVea.

I have never encountered one calling for Jeffries to defend his title against Langford or Jeannette.

You have a clear picture that Martin, McVea and Johnson were seen as the three top black contenders at the time.

This in itself, predisposes me to believe the contemporary sources, that claim that McVea had more fights than listed on Boxrec.

 

QUOTE="SuzieQ49, post: 19230018, member: 2387"]Here’s the issue I have..in one post you say Dempsey ducked Langford in 1917 because Sam was too good

Then in another post you say Langford’s manager wanted him to retire in 1915


So which is it, was Langford washed up in 1915 ready for retirement or was he still dangerous enough 2 years later that the great jack Dempsey refused to fight him?

If it’s the ladder, then wills should get a tremendous amount of credit for fighting Sam in 1914-15[/QUOTE]
Its both, Dempsey refused to fight Langford in1917 because he, Dempsey wasn't ready for him at that stage of his career. Yes Joe Woodman, Langford's manager wanted him to quit fighting in1915.No contradiction there whatsoever!
As old as I am, I wasn't around in1915 so how far Langford had gone back I can't tell you, all I can say is his manager wanted him to quit that year it's in Moyle's excellent biography of Sam.You must draw your own conclusions about it!
Dempsey was not a great fighter in1917, I think we can confidently state that he was just a promising comer at that stage of his boxing journey.
He was knocked out by Jim Flynn at the beginning of the year ,drew with
Al Norton, lost to Willie Meehan and drew with him3 times.Dempsey began hitting his stride in1918 imo.

Langford was blind in one eye after the 1917 fight with Fulton.
Here is the condition Langford was in in 1915.When he was well beaten by a Jeannette who was described as," having gone back some."

1915-04-14 The Boston Daily Globe (Boston, MA) (page 7)
SAM LANGFORD WELL WHIPPED
--------
Joe Jeannette Leads in 8 of 12 Rounds.
--------
His Second Victory in 12 Bouts With the Boston Scrapper.
--------
Sheppard Stopped in the Sixth by Larry Burns.
--------
When Joe Jeannette, the colored heavyweight, finished boxing 12 rounds with his old rival, Sam Langford, at the Atlas A. A. last night he was declared the winner by Referee Jack McGuigan of Philadelphia. There was no question about the decision, for Jeannette had the better of eight of the rounds. Langford carried, as usual, his large supply of fat about his body, but it did not seem to inconvenience him to any great extent.




Wills deserves a lot of credit for taking on Langford in 1914/15 ?
Have I ever said he doesn't?

 

FACT. On September 21st 1910. Jack Johnson met Sam Langford in the office of the Boston Journal ,in Langford's home town and stated that if Langford and his manager produced $20,000 as a bond and evidence of good faith he would cover it and defend his title against Langford,he further stated that he would be in town for several days to enable them to have the time to raise the money.They were either unable, or unwilling to do so and consequently nothing materialized from the meeting except some photos of them together which have never surfaced.
Page 179 ,"Sam Langford." Clay Moyle.

 

They met at Boston Globe's office (on Sep 20). It ended up with Johnson insisting that Langford posts his $20,000 first, then he'd cover it. Next day McIntosh cabled from London that he was willing to give $30,000 purse for a fight between Johnson and Langford, to which Johnson answered that the money must be posted in USA before he agrees to a match in London.

 

Is there any source to prove such bout had ever taken place? On Aug 30, 1920, the date this bout was scheduled to take place in Gary, IN, Langford fought Bearcat Wright in Nebraska instead.

 

My source is Clay Moyle's biography of Langford.
He states Langford fought Wright on August 30th at Walthil Nebraska, as you say.
He also states Langford fought Borker on September 2nd in Gary Indiana and lost a 10rd points decision to him.
Four days later he lost a 6rd decision to Big Bill Tate in Benton Harbour Michigan.

 

That's right and entirely in keeping with custom it was up to the challenger to show evidence of good faith FIRST!
Johnson did not refuse the McIntosh offer for a London fight did he?
Johnson signed to fight Langford and McVey in Australia McIntosh withdrew it.

 

I think Moyle is nearer the truth than anyone else as regards Langford.
You make me laugh ! I have Langford's record in front of me as I type. I know how many times he fought Thompson in1920 and how the fights went you were wrong on them!

This is what you posted

"Try to be fair. Langford also beat Jack Thompson in 1920 ( the year we are talking about ) ...TWICE. Your research is awful. You actually make a case for Langford by listing Thompson's name. "
IT'S WRONG!
Langford fought Thompson on April 5th in Muskogee Ohio a 15rds contest and he LOST the decision.
Langford fought him again in Memphis on November 15th over 8rds and he WON the decision.So YES they fought twice in1920 .NO Langford did not win both of them.
Source Clay Moyle.
You say my research is awful!
What does that make yours?LOL!


You have never informed me on any subject and your grasp of that era is pathetic!

 

I'm not here to argue. Just pointed out what had taken place that and next day, according to local papers. And thanks for pointing out there indeed was a Langford-Borker bout on Sept 2. Per Clay Moyle's source (Gary Evening Post)
"The date for the Sam Langford-Joe Borker ten round fight at the Gary Theatre under the auspices of Medlow Post, American Legion, was set back today to Thursday, September 2. Langford declined to appear here on Monday because of his condition. He wanted two or three more days to train in because he said he realized Borker to be a tough mixer."

I need to sync my Langford scrapbook with some of the things he listed in his book.