Who gave Ali a tougher time? Frazier or Norton?

Frazier, easily.

Norton frustrated Ali and broke his jaw.

Frazier nearly beat him to death even when Ali did win. Massive difference in terms of intensity and difficulty.

 

Exactly. If the question is "who did best in winning rounds" then Norton might take it (against lesser versions of Ali when he was in his own prime - mind), but which fights were tougher, that's a no-brainer.

 

Pretty much what's been said already. But I'm very impressed by how well Norton performed in the rematch. That was one of the very best version of Ali post exile.

 

Norton neutralized Ali's jab......and Frazier didn't.

Both of them did have Eddie Futch in their corners.

Frazier won his bout via "war"....Norton won because he took away Ali's strength.

When a "4th" Ali - Norton fight was proposed.....Ali said: "I ain't fighting that turkey any more."

 

I feel Ali was too light in the second Norton fight for it to be his best version post exile. That particular weight may have been perfect for Ali pre-exile. But now your talking about an older Ali who had those years of inactivity. The best version of Ali post exile may have been the second Quarry fight.

 

In terms of pure action it was frazier. Ali and everyone else in the division knew how to beat frazier but knowing and doing is two different things. Frazier was the most determined fighter in history and he had a way of imposing his will on his foes and breaking them down.

Stylistically it was norton. Norton was trained by eddie futch to do things that ali's previous opponents couldn't do such as jab when ali jabbed. By the time ali fought norton he had slowed down just enough for norton to carry out the strategy devised by futch, and it threw him off.

 

I think Ali looked great in the second Quarry fight, but he wasn't really tested in the same way. Ali was 212 in the rematches against Norton and Frazier, and I think he never looked quicker or fitter post exile.

 

:good

Norton won their second bout, I cannot listen to the commentry, with Freedie Pacheco going on about Ali.

 

The second Ali-Quarry fight is questioanble as "Ali at his best".

Jerry had just seen his brother Mike nearly killed by Bob Foster just 30 minutes before, and Quarry was not at his mental best.

 

Excuses, excuses. It's not like Quarry had any chance against an Ali fresh out from the exile in the first fight, either.

 

I watched the thrilla in Manilla for the first time in probably 15 years, last week. I had forgotten what a pounding Ali took in that fight and what it almost did to him. I'm no doctor, but based on reports of what was said, I wouldn't be surprised if both men suffered permanant damage from that fight. In the early part of the fight, Ali wobbled Frazier badly, and at one point seemed as though he was going knock Frazier out. Later in the match, Joe clobbered Ali for some 5 or 6 strait rounds. Joe was already blind in one eye, and his other eye had swollen nearly shut, so he spent the last couple rounds fighting almost completely blind.. Unbelievable match, especially for two guys who were past their primes. Such an ordeal would have likely ended the careers of most fighters.

To answer the question, I think Frazier was Ali's cheif rival and the more formidable opponent in the combined 6 matches that Ali had between Frazier and Norton. God, I don't know how the man survived so many grueling battles against the two of them....Of course, there are some who would say............He didn't..........

 

Not true, really. No one would give him even odds or anything but it's stupid to count someone like Quarry out of any fight.

Didn't Ali himself say he was glad he stopped Quarry when he did because he was getting very winded?

 

You thought the second and third Frazier bouts were razor thin close? I didn't.

Norton gave Ali fits all three times.