Who gives a prime Tyson nightmares ?

Agree.

I am fairly certain that Witherspoon threw that second Smith bout. It didnt look legit and knowing the caliber of the two fighters and their first fight I just dont believe that result had anything to do with Witherspoon`s chin.

 

Might have something to do with the fact that Tim got Ko'd in 1 round by Bonecrusher Smith.

It's a serious allegation to make because there are a multitude of reasons why Tim had every incentive to winning the fight.


As for the thread?

I don't think any fighter off the bat gives "nightmares" to Tyson because his flaws are very difficult to exploit. I believe the saying was "Everybody has a plan until they get hit." It certainly doesn't make him unbeatable but it does take a special performance to get the job done.

Remember his hands are just as fast as Muhammad Ali and his power is as potent as George Foreman. His chin is granite and has been tested numerous times.

 

Prime Tua had a good chance at stopping Tyson . Holyfield and then Lewis dangerous as well. Valuev if he actually trained to cause harm in the ring and not to restrain rampaging little kids like an experienced special education nanny. Vitali dangerous as well. Tucker if he came uninjured would have been a different story. Tyson's fights against those he fought at the same state that he fought them would have been a different story if Tyson was not allowed to cheat using his elbows. Bruno, Berbick, Tubbs, Spinks, old Holmes and others would have fared better than they did. And a prime George Foreman of course.

 

Tucker wouldn't have beat Mike in a month of Sundays! I believe Holyfield would have always had Tyson's number, Lewis would be more dangerous than Vitali because of his uppercut. I think Ali is the greatest of all time but I think Tyson has a great chance of stopping him, look how often Frazier caught a close to prime Ali. Even Greg page in the right zone would have a good chance against mike, he had the size and power to upset him.

 

Brad Pitt

 

Yes, and in turn, Smith looked like a walking tank job for Tyson until the final seconds. My one reservation about that one though is that Bonecrusher pulled the same noncompetition act for nine rounds against Bruno, so there was a high profile precedent for James with Mike.

 

Tyson doesn't mimick Frazier though. Two different styles.

 

Who said anything about that? Tyson was even better than Frazier at slipping punches and making people pay

 

Terrible Tim GKTFO by Smith thats why he didnt face Tyson.

The other reason is, Smith sued Don King (his promoter) and Carl king (his manager)

So King basically blackballed him out of any potential paydays.

Don King was in his prime in the 70s and 80s, you dont take on King in his prime and win.

 

I'm not advocating that Tim took a dive. I think he got caught early and went down. I don't think the first to knockdowns seemed like they really hurt Witherspoon, but he lost his legs early and his attempts to trade only hastened the ending. He wasn't actually KO'd in the down for 10 -- they invoked the 3 knockdown rule. (That isn't to say that it wasn't a warranted stoppage, just that it wasn't like he was laid out by Bonecrusher.)

 

Holyfield of the FIRST Bowe fight.

 

I don't think height is much to do with it. everyone was taller than Tyson and they all ended up the same way against prime mike, except buster.

granite chin, fast feet, superb defence, 100% fitness.

 

Ringside observers also noted that Patterson's hand speed WAS indeed a match for Ali's in the early going of their first match, and Henry Cooper stated that Floyd's hands were actually faster to him than Muhammad's. [I suspect Cooper may have been confusing speed with quickness though. Patterson threw shorter punches, and I don't think he telegraphed like Ali could. Henry was able to make Muhammad miss in both their bouts, flooring him with a jab duck and hook counter in '63, but Floyd was pretty accurate in his return from Ali I.]

Looking at Ali-Patterson I & II, I don't see Muhammad having any significant stylistic problems with Mike. He understood the peek-a-boo pretty well, and actually emulated it early on, well enough to get some time sparring with Liston before Sonny's challenge of Floyd. [What interested Liston was the opportunity to practice swinging downward at a low target. At least one B & W photograph does exist of the two of them sparring in headgear with young Clay in Patterson posture, but I've only seen it with accompanying article in an old Boxing Illustrated, never on-line. At this nascent stage of his professional career, Cassius had already taken up braggadocio, but modestly laughed off any notion of competing against Sonny in televised interviews. He was still a ways away from getting to that point, and knew it after they'd sparred. Liston was no Ingo, not with his jab and two handed power. Sonny, Moore, Ellis, Blue Lewis, Lyle and Holmes, were at least six of the sparring partners Ali would later compete against. Not aware of any former professional opponents he hired to spar with, as Hagler did with Boogaloo during Marv's reign. At the outset of the 1960s, Liston and Clay were actually pretty cordial ]

For Tyson, the issue wouldn't be punch resistance or power, but the fact the peek a boo just wasn't a good match for Ali's height and reach, any more than Jerry Quarry's countering orientation was. For a short guy to give Muhammad issues, he needed to be able to ceaselessly pressure the body like Frazier and Dempsey could, or counter jab and cut off the ring efficiently. [Stylistically, while he wouldn't win, Qawi might have given Ali more headaches than any LHW in the last half century. He had the counter jab and efficient ring cutting to be a real nuisance to Ali, like Whitehurst and Marty Marshall to Liston, and Lowry to Marciano.]

Mike could well go the distance with Ali in a surprisingly anticlimactic affair, but I think it would be as lopsided a decision as Muhammad chose to make it. Tyson's power would keep spectators and viewers on the edge of their seats for as long as it happened live, but it would not be a popular match for viewing after the fact.

 

Certainly, aberrations do happen [Hearns-Duran, Hatchetman-Maxim II], and 'Crusher-'Spoon II was as striking a contrast to their first match as Maxim-Hatchetman I was to their return engagement.

Because of the lopsidedness of their exchange of wins, James and Tim should have had a rubber match like Maxim and Sheppard. This would have been a situation which I believe 'Spoon would have the advantage in, if it was to be on the level. Weaver of course radically improved his showing in his rematch with Bonecrusher by going the 12 round limit [hardly the first time Hercules had taken a former knockout conqueror to the final bell in a return go], so competent promotion surely would have made a third go commercially viable.