Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ThaChampIsHere, Jan 3, 2023.
What about squeaky clean Lewis? He ofcourse didn't ever touch any peds right? This is ridiculous.
At HW Lewis by far.
If you consider Holy's CW career it becomes more even.
Lewis without a doubt, he beat everyone and avenged every defeat, Holyfield did not retire in time and had some strange defeats...
Holyfield didn't run away.
IMO across the body of work, Holyfield.
Tough one but Lennox for me.
No drug scandals, didn't carry on for too long and beat every man he faced... Holyfield included.
Purely at HW? Lewis, clearly imo.
P4P, when you factor in Holyfield's CW career and give him additional credit for his work at HW, on account of his size, it's much closer. In fact, Holyfield edges it for me.
Why is it at all fair to assume Lewis ever used PEDs?
You can point to no evidence that he did.
Now unlike you I am not assuming he must have been clean.
You can never prove a negative.
You or I *could* be robbers or wife-beaters or serial killers...
But it is unfair & irrational to assume guilt because, say, men have dramatically higher rates of most all crimes than woman.
Or if one of us is young, or in another group that more often are criminals...
Furthermore there is nothing suggestive about the health, looks, weight/muscle gain-besides no evidence-that shows he likely used.
Besides the whole "Evan Fields" specific evidence/BALCO had his information, his gain in muscularity in a short time, with a much smaller bone structure, his premature baldness, "heart problem", even varying energies in later fights...
You do not dispute that he is a steroid & HGH cheat.
Lewis is 6'5" with a 7' wingspan, so even somewhat heavier than Holyfield (in part because unlike Holyfield he had nearly proportionately large legs), did not seem to be unnaturally jacked.
Is there a reason you can supply that Lewis is guilty?
Or is it just that you like & identify with Holyfield, so you want to blame others absent evidence, so that Holyfield is not looked down upon or credit is not reduced for his accomplishments?
And assuming everyone is guilty is as deeply illogical as if, say, I assumed that nobody not caught ever even dabbled in PEDs.
But it is deeply unfair to assume guilt without good reason to believe it.
This poll is only close because ppl dislike Lewis for some odd reason.
Lewis is clearly the better and it can be argued that he is the best heavyweight ever, I can’t see anyone through history that Lewis wouldn’t be able to beat.
I hate to think of the beating a guy like Zhilei Zhang would put on the midget-slayer anorexic Lemon Lewis
Holyfield objectively accomplished more. Two weight undisputed champion. The only man in history to win the HW crown 4x. Better all round CV.
I don’t think the drug angle is a fair way to malign Holyfield here. Lewis was probably on gear too. Just look at his physical changes between McCall 1 and McCall 2. He wasn’t getting tested back then either and he even openly refused drug testing for his fight with Razor Ruddock.
Clearly Lennox Lewis. Lewis arguably had the best career of any World Heavyweight Champion ever.
Lewis won the Olympic Super Heavyweight Gold medal by stopping a future Hall of Fame World Heavyweight Champion Riddick Bowe. Name another all-time great heavyweight who beat another future Hall of Fame World Heavyweight champion in an Olympic final to win the Gold Medal? That's nuts. (Holyfield didn't even make it to the final of the Olympics. He got disqualified against Joseph Parker's old trainer.)
Lennox Lewis beat every man he faced as a pro, and that included 15 cruiserweight and heavyweight titleholders (Klitschko, Tyson, Holyfield, Bruno, Mercer, Morrison, Akinwande, Tucker, Rahman, Botha, Briggs, McCall, Weaver, McCrory, Ocasio) and some of the most dangerous heavyweights in the great era of the 90s who never won a heavyweight title (Tua, Ruddock, Golota, Mason).
Lewis made 14 successful WBC Heavyweight title defenses, ranking him in the top 10 most successful defending heavyweight champions in history.
Lewis retired on top scoring a successful sixth-round stoppage over a prime future Hall of Fame World Heavyweight Champion Vitali Klitschko. Name another heavyweight champion whose last pro fight was a successful heavyweight title defense against a Hall of Fame World Heavyweight Champion in his prime? Tunney's last fight was a win over Tom Heeney. Marciano's last fight was a win over Archie Moore (who was no slouch, but who was a 41-year-old light heavyweight).
If you could ask any fighter if they would want to win the Olympic Gold medal against a future Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion, beat everyone they fought as a pro, retire as the World Heavyweight Champion with a successful title stoppage win over the next great hall of fame world heavyweight Champion ... and retire with your brains in tact and tens of millions in the bank ... EVERYONE would take Lennox Lewis' career.
Holyfield's last bout was as a 59-year-old loser in a 30-second blowout loss to an MMA fighter in a bare knuckle embarrassment. He had his boxing license revoked in the US after his loss to Larry Donald. He's gone bankrupt. He was involved in a PED scandal. Got DQed in the Olympics. He had the top of his ear bitten off. He lost to Valuev, Byrd, got flattened and lost against both former middleweight Toney and John Ruiz, You can't understand half of what he says. People respect Evander, still, but I don't know too many young fighters who'd want his career.
And I don't think saying Holyfield is a 4X champion is fair to Lennox Lewis when one of those wins you're crediting to Holyfield was a vacant WBA belt he picked up immediatley after LOSING a unification to Lennox Lewis.
Again, which career would you rather have? Winning the unification with Lewis or losing the unification with Lewis and picking up a vacant WBA belt against John Ruiz next time out?
(Keep in mind, most people thought Holyfield lost to Ruiz for the vacant belt which was why a rematch was ordered - and Ruiz floored Evander and won the return and Ruiz successfully defended against Holyfield after that as well.)
That controversial Ruiz decision was wedged in a nine-fight clip where Evander only managed to win two of the nine fights on his way to getting his license revoked following the Donald loss and sitting out for two years.
Holyfield doesn't have a better resume than Lewis.
In terms of overall greatness I'd say Holy, but which career would I rather have? Lewis
Lewis beat everyman he ever faced and left the sport with his money and mind intact.
Holyfield took TONS of damage in his career and fought on for way too long. Was also very inconsistent in his performances as some here have already mentioned
I love Lennox. LOVE. All hail King Lennox, etc. A good Canadian boy who trained near my hometown in Ontario.
But fair is fair and Holyfield edges it for me.