Who had better skills, Toney or Joe Louis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by kopejh, Jan 21, 2011.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Toney as the best defensive fighter ever is laughable. Nicco Loche laughs at you.

    I like your enthusiasm, and it's cool that you can admit that you haven't seen that much Louis, it's not like it's mandatory for talking about all this, but that remark is excessive. And i'm not trying to take anything away from Toney, he's one of my very, very favourites (check out my youtube channel if you don't believe me - I think he's my most uploaded fighter).

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fmd9gPP25k[/ame]

    But even some of his peers, Whitaker, Jones, were harder to hit clean.
     
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2011
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2011
    #46
  2. BUMPY KNUCKLES

    BUMPY KNUCKLES Guest

    they were hard to hit clean but , was cassius clay considered a defensive fighter AT All ? he was also extremley hard to hit while he had his legs , i think the fact that JT executes the shoulder roll like no other has to put him up there at the top
     
    BUMPY KNUCKLES, Jan 21, 2011
    BUMPY KNUCKLES, Jan 21, 2011
    #47
  3. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah, the "Toney is probably the best defensive fighter EVER" line is pretty absurd, guy. You've got a lot of boxing to watch.

    As for Barkley/Toney, that was his ultimate showcase, albeit against the perfect opponent. Barkley was well past his prime by that point, and his increasingly deteriorating reflexes and wide, telegraphed punching made him ripe pickings for Toney's tight counter-punches. Toney looked great, but you have to take the overall disadvantage Barkley was at into consideration.
     
    El Bujia, Jan 21, 2011
    El Bujia, Jan 21, 2011
    #48
  4. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nicolino Locche. Watch his fight with Fuji and get back to me.
     
    El Bujia, Jan 21, 2011
    El Bujia, Jan 21, 2011
    #49
  5. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    I knew most of the replies in this thread would burn my ass, as a great fan of both. I was not disappointed. Interesting thread though, TS.
     
    Boxed Ears, Jan 21, 2011
    Boxed Ears, Jan 21, 2011
    #50
  6. BUMPY KNUCKLES

    BUMPY KNUCKLES Guest

    ok lol point taken i never new such a man existed , what were his overall opposition like though ?
     
    BUMPY KNUCKLES, Jan 21, 2011
    BUMPY KNUCKLES, Jan 21, 2011
    #51
  7. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He had plenty of padding, as is wont to happen over a 135 fight career taking place mainly in his home country. However, he also fought plenty of top contenders as well, and the occasional greats or near greats like Carlos Ortiz, Eddie Perkins, Carlos Hernandez, Antonio Cervantes, etc.

    His full fights with Fuji and Hernandez (most of it, anyway) are up on Youtube if you'd like to view them. In the Hernandez fight he actually gets dropped in the second round I believe, by some monster shots that land cleaner than any you'll ever see land on Locche. Hernandez was a very big puncher, though, and Locche doesn't make the same mistake again en route to schooling Hernandez for the rest of the fight.

    Both fights are masterclasses, but the Fuji fight in particular may well be the single best defensive performance I've ever seen, against a similarly hard-hitting opponent (although admittedly not much of a technician).
     
    El Bujia, Jan 21, 2011
    El Bujia, Jan 21, 2011
    #52
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think Locche-Fuji is the best schooling i've seen. Unbelievable in retrospect that Fuji was favoured to win that fight.
     
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2011
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2011
    #53
  9. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The way some talk about Joe Louis you'd think he was Felix Trinidad.
     
    Shake, Jan 21, 2011
    Shake, Jan 21, 2011
    #54
  10. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    what does this even mean
     
    Swarmer, Jan 21, 2011
    Swarmer, Jan 21, 2011
    #55
  11. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    locche was amazing. one of my favorites. closest to willie pep we have seen since.
     
    klompton, Jan 21, 2011
    klompton, Jan 21, 2011
    #56
  12. kopejh

    kopejh Guest

    what does Louis do you wouldn't expect from a middling technician like Barrera?

    if Louis fought like he had at HW but with a MW frame would your opinions be the same? no I don't think so. the truth of the matter is that fans tend to look upon heavyweights more leniently when talking about their technical skills because the standard set in that division is so far below those set by the greats of the lower weights.

    personally I can't see Louis being able to fight a highly paced technical fight against an opponent the caliber of McCallum the way Toney did.
     
    kopejh, Jan 21, 2011
    kopejh, Jan 21, 2011
    #57
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Locche-Fuji is one of the most complete defensive performances I have ever seen too, against a one-dimensional but extremely dangerous puncher.
     
    Flea Man, Jan 21, 2011
    Flea Man, Jan 21, 2011
    #58
  14. D.T

    D.T Guest

    Toney is more skilled than Louis overall. How hard is that for some ****s to swallow?

    Louis is far greater on the rankings, but Toney is more skilled.


    For example, Riddick Bowe is more skilled than Marciano, but does Riddick rank higher... no.
     
    D.T, Jan 22, 2011
    D.T, Jan 22, 2011
    #59
  15. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    very compelling argument. got any more nuggets of wisdom to share?
     
    Swarmer, Jan 22, 2011
    Swarmer, Jan 22, 2011
    #60
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