Who had greater ability: OLIVARES (circa Rose fight) or HAGLER (circa Sibson fight)?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by horst, Oct 15, 2009.


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  1. horst

    horst Guest

    I thought I would make another of these, I like these comparison threads.

    I'm not going to bother with the videos this time though, almost everyone will have seen these fights, seeing that they are two of the most flawless performances you ever could see.

    Same question goes:

    In their peak performances, who was the more skilled, more effective, more impressive fighter?

    :good
     
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    #1
  2. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    I've mentioned numerous times the difficulty Lionel had in making the weight, right from the off set of his Championship reign..

    Olivares kicked his arse. Castillo did the same to Olivares.. Lionel had previously out boxed Castillo in LA. Olivares was far from scientific, or predictable stylistically. Castillo was the better boxer by a long shot.

    Haglar is hard to judge against Sibson.. a pent up aggression he carried after the rascist remarks.
     
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    #2
  3. horst

    horst Guest

    What is your answer to the thread-question then mate?
     
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    #3
  4. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    The thread title and poll titles are completely different mate...

    Comparing to two is bloody stupid IMO. No offence, yet both are worlds apart when making any relative comparisons.

    WHOSE WIN WAS MORE IMPRESSIVE AT THE RESPECTIVE CAREER STAGES?? Try that one for size...

    :good
     
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    #4
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    You're not really being asked to "compare" them in the strictest sense of the word though. If I strip it down to the bare meaning:

    Who was the better fighter?

    Anyone can answer that question.

    Your question is different from mine. I don't want to know about the value of the singular win mentioned, I am asking who was the better fighter when at their best (for me that was around the time of the Rose fight for Ruben, and around the time of the Sibson fight for Marvin).
     
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    #5
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Horrific question. Very close. Agonisingly close. With a gun to my head i'd pick Olivares based on the punching, but I'm happy with the contrary reply.
     
    McGrain, Oct 15, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 15, 2009
    #6
  7. horst

    horst Guest

    Very interesting indeed.

    What areas do you think Ruben was better in, and what areas do you think Marvin had the edge in? How many fighters would have beaten the Ruben of the Rose fight at his weight, and same question for the Marvin who cut down Sibbo?

    :lol: Sorry to ask you to elaborate on something you have clearly found difficult, but I do enjoy analysis of this type.
     
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    horst, Oct 15, 2009
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think Olivares was a better natural tactician. I like that he felt guys out, and then when he had the way they moved they were pinned down, guys were pretty much done...Hagler was less methodical than this, I think. Olivares also hit harder, and more horribly, though he wasn't slower. Better feints.

    As to who would beat who, we could be here all night with that question, but I wouldn't offer more than 1-4 names for either man, and they would be debatable.
     
    McGrain, Oct 15, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 15, 2009
    #8
  9. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hagler.

    Not sure i could see Olivares beating anyone that you usually see in a middleweight top ten incidentally, except Cerdan, who really shouldn't be there in the first place.
     
    Mantequilla, Oct 15, 2009
    Mantequilla, Oct 15, 2009
    #9
  10. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    For Christ sakes.. Olivares' best nigh may have been on a differeent night than the Rose fight night. READ MY FKN WORDS!!!!! Lionel was not at his best, therefore Rubins finest hour should not be considered this fight.. I'm not defending Lionel, Im simply trying to tell you people that Olivares had very little of anything infront of him that night.

    Yes LIONEL WAS SMASHED. Granted.. But Olivares had far better wins than this..

    Its no better than talking about Camacho belting SRL.
     
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    #10
  11. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    What the?? OMG!!!
     
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mantquilla knows his ****; I agree that's an odd post but he'll be along to explain it in a bit.
     
    McGrain, Oct 15, 2009
    McGrain, Oct 15, 2009
    #12
  13. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Depends what the OMG is for, i suppose.:D

    NOt much to explain though really.Olivares, was a great fighter, but not quite as formidable to me as the consensus top guys at Marvin's weight.There's just something about him as a fighter i've never quite liked, but have a tough time putting my finger on it.Maybe that i feel he relied a bit too much on being able to debilitate fighters with his power for a guy who was supposedly an all-time allrounder as well.NOt a weakness per se, but i don't think he was quite the ring-mechanic a lot of the other great hard hitting boxer-punchers were.

    Cerdan on the other is more a top 15 to 30 kinda guy for me.I'd fuly admit i rate him lower than most.
     
    Mantequilla, Oct 15, 2009
    Mantequilla, Oct 15, 2009
    #13
  14. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Olivares is growing on me. I even like his losing effort against Arguello. He was a brilliant fighter. But the one thing I can't get around with him is consistency, which I believe is a quantifiable attribute. Hagler was incredibly consistent and I think that gives him the edge over Olivares.
     
    natonic, Oct 15, 2009
    natonic, Oct 15, 2009
    #14
  15. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    Obviously I responded to your initial response out of context... and deservedly so. It doesn't make sense to me still.

    Great reply non the less. One thing about Haglar that, to me, difuses his brilliance via viewing is the fact he NEVER seemed flustered. In any epic battle the Marvellous one seemed totally in control of all agression he exposed/exhuded. This may over ride the pressures he under took in any fight for the benefit of breaking another.


    Hearns vs Haglar is a good example IMO.
     
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    flamengo, Oct 15, 2009
    #15
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