Following a difference of opinion between Bummy Davis and myself on the Carnera thread,I'd like to ask the Forum who in their opinion had the better chin Carnera or Willard and also if they were comparable?Thanks.
Willard had the better chin of the two. I would think the forum would lean heavily towards that conclusion as well. I think a better question that may merit debatable pros and cons on the subject matter would be is Carnera's chin underrated?
CBZ's take on it. "Willard was big and strong and a very hard hitter; He had a tough chin and was able to take considerable punishment" "Carnera was an extremely well-built man who possessed great strength and was quite mobile for such a large man; However, his chin was vulnerable to the type of power punch that the top heavyweight fighters were able to deliver"
These lads took the best shots of Jack Dempsey and Max Baer respectively and kept getting up to endure more. Neither of these guys had a chin like Micheal Moorer. If forced i'd say Willard purely because of what he suffered against Dempsey without being stopped by the ref or counted out.
Have to go with Willard. Despite the seven crushing knockdowns he suffered in the first round against Dempsey at Toledo, he kept getting up. While the fight perhaps should have been stopped in the first round, Willard remained upright for the second and third rounds and still tried to make a go of it. Also, up to that 1919 Toledo fight, Willard had not even been floored as a pro fighter. And in Peter Heller's book In This Corner Gunboat Smith, himself a hard walloper, tells of unloading his Sunday punch on Willard's chin and he said the effect was "his hair wiggled a little." At that point, he decided to content himself with boxing Willard to win the 20-round decision. Willard's other KO loss was to the crude but powerful slugger Luis Angel Firpo in 1923 when Jess was in his early 40s and except for a victory over Floyd Johnson hadn't fought since the Dempsey bout. Even then he lasted into the eighth round. While I don't know how many times Carnera had been floored prior to his title-winning effort against Sharkey, I know that Sharkey floored him once in their first fight in 1931. He got up, and lost a 15-round decision. Against Baer, he was floored something like eleven times over the course of the bout, but he kept getting up. The film I've seen of this bout shows a wild-swinging melee. He went down a couple of times against Joe Louis and thereafter faded from the scene. He suffered a few more stoppages later, after he was pretty well gone. While I believe Willard had the sturdier chin of the two, I also believe that Carnera's chin is underrated. Both Willard and Carnera were very game fighters who displayed their gameness best in the bouts where they lost the title.
Willard is in a much higher class ... Carnera is not as bad as many think as he seemed to have terrific recuperative powers .. he got up from terrific shots v.s. Baer but was pretty much done against Louis ... Baer was not the combination punching finisher a Dempsey or Louis was but he could hit and Primo kept getting up ..
dont twist my words, I said neither giant had a great chin, Willard had only 28 fights 22-5-1 and was stopped 3X, Carnera had triple the fights and was 77-6-0 when he was Ko'd (for the 1st time in his career by Baer and then Joe Louis a year later. Willard was bounced around badly by Dempsey. I dont think either man would win the best chin award, heart they had. I dont think Willard would have held up well if he had to fight Max Baer or Joe Louis either at any stage of his career
I haven't, here is you post. I dont know Willard quit in a fight with Joe Cox was Ko'd badly by Jack Dempsey and then stopped by Firpo, he is listed as having won 22 fights lost 5 and a draw. Primo was 76-6 after the Tommy Loughran fight and had not been stopped (Stribling dropped him with a low blow) Primo fought Paulino Uzcudun 2 X and Sharkey 2X Ernie Shaaf and only Louis and Baer Ko'd him in 1934-& 35, later on he was stopped by Haynes and Musina but Primo already had close to 90 fights, Uzcudun was a pretty good puncher stopping an Old Harry Wills among others and Primo beat him I dont see much of a difference in the 2 giants to call one chin better than the other both men were bounced around by Dempsey and Louis respectively but Primo had over double the fights that Willard had by then. An argument could be made either way Janitor replied. "Willard, and I assumed that it was never really questioned" To which I replied. "Only by Bummy" Q . Anyone else agree with you? A.No! My comment stands proven ! Not only are you incapable of admitting you are wrong, which you have demonstrated previously, you are now implying you meant something entirely different to what you posted.atsch Want to do this excercise again regarding your comment, "Uzcudun was a pretty good puncher" and compare it to your stance regarding Cleveland Williams whom you say was not an elite puncher because he never kod the names? Your posts below. "He absolutely hit harder than Big Cat Williams (who did not show his power when he moved up in class) and lost all the big ones" "Other than stopping Ernie Terrell (who beat him in a rematch, Big Cat did not show KO power or ability to KO nor did he show a solid chin. " "I think Big Cat is over rated as a puncher and may have been a bit chinny . Your rationale for downgrading Williams as a puncher is that he failed to ko the rated names. Now, because it suits you ,you claim Uzcudun was a pretty good puncher because he stopped a washed up 38 Wills who had the **** kicked out of him by light hitting Sharkey in his last fight and fouled out to save himself being ko'd ? Who else of any note did Uzcudun ko?
Uzcudun was known for his granite chin and never die attitude. He was a swarmer/brawler with good endurance and only average power at best. I think he was probably somewhat in the mold of Derek Chisora only slightly better.