Who had the better competition in title matches, Johnson or Charles?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 7, 2009.


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  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Who had the better competition in title matches, Johnson or Charles?

    I started when they won the title, and cut the list off on the fight they lost to blance things out, since Charles fought Walcott a few times.



    26/12/1908 Jack Johnson TKO12 Tommy Burns
    16/10/1909 Jack Johnson KO12 Stanley Ketchel
    04/07/1910 Jack Johnson TKO15 James J Jeffries
    04/07/1912 Jack Johnson KO9 Jim Flynn
    19/12/1913 Jack Johnson D20 Jim Johnson
    27/06/1914 Jack Johnson PTS20 Frank Moran


    22/06/1949 Ezzard Charles PTS15 Jersey Joe Walcott
    10/08/1949 Ezzard Charles TKO7 Gus Lesnevich
    14/10/1949 Ezzard Charles KO8 Pat Valentino
    15/08/1950 Ezzard Charles TKO14 Freddie Beshore
    27/09/1950 Ezzard Charles PTS15 Joe Louis
    05/12/1950 Ezzard Charles KO11 Nick Barone
    12/01/1951 Ezzard Charles TKO10 Lee Oma
    07/03/1951 Ezzard Charles PTS15 Jersey Joe Walcott
    30/05/1951 Ezzard Charles PTS15 Joey Maxim
     
    Mendoza, Nov 7, 2009
    Mendoza, Nov 7, 2009
    #1
  2. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'll go with Charles
     
    sugarsean, Nov 7, 2009
    sugarsean, Nov 7, 2009
    #2
  3. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    interesting thread i think Charles and i will explain later
     
    GPater11093, Nov 7, 2009
    GPater11093, Nov 7, 2009
    #3
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think Ezzard Charles takes this one by a country mile.
     
    mr. magoo, Nov 7, 2009
    mr. magoo, Nov 7, 2009
    #4
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Charles curtesy of the Louis/Walcott wins, but given all you old timers are claiming Langford was shitting it from a 1910 version of Jeffries and Jeffries being a top20 HW of all time that makes it closer.
     
    PowerPuncher, Nov 7, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Nov 7, 2009
    #5
  6. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Charles takes this comparison. Maxim held a win over Walcott, and Louis is a better win for Ezz than Jeff is for Johnson. Walcott was a future champion who gave Louis life and death twice.

    Burns is Johnson's best title win, as Tommy was an active champion at his peak when they squared off.
     
    Duodenum, Nov 7, 2009
    Duodenum, Nov 7, 2009
    #6
  7. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd say the Walcott wins put Charles over the top. Otherwise, their reigns were somewhat similar - a bunch of second-rate challengers, and a "legacy fight" against a comebacking ex-champ.
     
    My2Sense, Nov 7, 2009
    My2Sense, Nov 7, 2009
    #7
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'm thinking Charles, but I'd like to hear your reasoning on the topic.
     
    Mendoza, Nov 8, 2009
    Mendoza, Nov 8, 2009
    #8
  9. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :goodyes.
     
    turpinr, Nov 8, 2009
    turpinr, Nov 8, 2009
    #9
  10. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree
     
    Bummy Davis, Nov 8, 2009
    Bummy Davis, Nov 8, 2009
    #10
  11. KTFO

    KTFO Guest




    Did you make up your mind already? Let's hear! :cool:
     
    KTFO, Nov 8, 2009
    KTFO, Nov 8, 2009
    #11
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    You want reasoning?

    Joe Louis and Jersey Joe Walcott are better wins than anyone Johnson beat during that period. Walcott is possibly a top 15 heavyweight of all time, and Joe Louis had not lost a fight in 14 years. In fact Louis would go on to win 8 fights in a row and earn # 1 heavyweight contender status AFTER losing to charles. Jeffries had not won a fight in 6 years prior to the Johnson fight.
     
    SuzieQ49, Nov 9, 2009
    SuzieQ49, Nov 9, 2009
    #12
  13. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why werent the fights with Tony Ross and Al Kaufmann included on Johnson's record?

    Also, and more a question for any historians, but is there any details on what happened in the sparring exhibition between Denver ed Smith and Johnson, a week or so before the Ketchell fight?
     
    Boilermaker, Nov 9, 2009
    Boilermaker, Nov 9, 2009
    #13
  14. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Joe Louis was inactive for almost three years going into the Charles bout sp let's get real about the Louis Charles fought. He was considerably worse than the version that fought Marciano when at least he had fights under his belt and some conditioning.

    Walcott tilts the balance for Charles but it is close. Burns is vastly underated and was in his prime as was Ketchel. Moran was a tough challanger as was Flynn. Jim Johnson is also highly underated.
     
    he grant, Nov 10, 2009
    he grant, Nov 10, 2009
    #14
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Police stopped this fight in the 14th round .
     
    mcvey, Nov 10, 2009
    mcvey, Nov 10, 2009
    #15
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