Who has a better chance in their rematch: Canelo or Kambosos

Who did you expect to win each fight?

Based on what we seen, George has a better chance to drop or hurt Haney than Canelo against Bivol. But the other side of that coin is that Canelo was far more competitive than George was on a RBR basis.

 

I slightly favoured Kambosas. I thought he would make it much rougher.

BTW, there was NO KNOCKDOWN last night. The game is boxing, not wrestling.



I expected Bivol to win by wide UD or stoppage.


Neither man was very competitive.

Both fights could reasonably be scored shutouts.

 

What about them? If they don't hit shoulder, it's a grey area. Are we talking hitting elbow or hitting upper arm just below the shoulder? I wouldn't count elbow shots or forearm hits, particularly if they are being used to block. Elbows and forearms are often used to block. Shoulders/biceps not so much. Shoulders/biceps generally absorb shots, elbows / forearms generally deflect or block shots.

The rules that proved me right about shoulder shots didn't expressly prohibit other kinds of arm punches from being scored, but that they're "mostly" considered a means of blocking. So "mostly" no but "sometimes" yes. They didn't go into what "mostly" specifically means so we need to use common sense. I generally wouldn't score elbow or forearm shots, but if a shot connected just below the shoulder, I mean it's hard to hit the upper arm above the elbow and miss the shoulder, the glove is pretty big and covers a lot of area. If you remember what ellerbe said, he looked at whether the part of the arm that was hit was being used to block or not, which seemed like a reasonable way to interpret whether we should consider shots that hit the arm a block or not. I would generally not score elbow or forearm shots because those can be used to block, remember there was that one hook in Round 1 that Bivol got his forearm onto, didn't completely block it with the forearm, just slowed it down, it still connected to the shoulder. I wouldn't call that a significant shot, and I doubt you would either, but I wouldn't call it a full block either. Grey areas.

I think all this talk about whether arm punches can be scored or not is largely irrelevant becuse I wasn't scoring any specific arm punches in Round 1. If you say I wanted to count arm punches, that was purely theoretical based on specific kinds of arm punches that I addressed, like elbows or forearms which can be used for blocking. I thought I made it pretty clear that I wouldn't count shots that hit elbows or forearms. And besides that, there's not many areas to hit on the arm besides gloves, forearms, elbows and shoulders. If we're talking upper arm shots that land just below the shoulder, that's more of a grey area. But it's more about how well and how hard the shot lands. If it lands to the upper arm, and at least some of the glove hits the shoulder, it can and should be scored.

 

I just don't get the sense that you really want to have a serious discussion about whether arm punches can be scored. It's more your way to deflect from you being so wrong about shoulder shots and trying to find a way out of that.

 

I’ll definitely watch the fight again. I was fighting to stay awake before the opening bell.

Come on, Canelo didn’t come close to winning. He arguably lost every round and was didn’t come close to hurting Bivol at any time. He was thoroughly outboxed and dominated the whole night. I think Bivol has a great chance to knock him out because he seemed to take his foot off the gas and box Canelo when he had Canelo in trouble. It was a good strategy because he had a commanding lead and there was no reason to take unnecessary chances. I’ve seen the fight several times and can’t give Canelo more than a couple rounds if I try.

 

Haney went down from a punch, a left hook to the body. It's hard to see it, because bad camera angles, even on replay in slow-mo. Bad angles but a hard left hook clearly landed and he immediately dropped. He wasn't wrestled down. If you watch it closely, from one angle it looked like it hit Haney's shoulder, but from the second angle you can see he lowered it at the last second and dug it into the side of his body. But it's very hard to see from the angles as Haney's body blocked us from seeing it land.

 

I can count the number of fights Canelo didn't gas in the back half on one hand and it almost always is fights where he purposely starts slow and (potentially) gives away the early rounds. If he does that with Bivol it's basically a wash from what he did in the first fight.

 

He was not thoroughly outboxed in rounds 1-4 or in round 9. In 5-8 & 10-12 he was thoroughly outboxed. You saying he was thoroughly outboxed and dominated "the whole night" is quite an exaggeration. The whole night includes rounds 1-4 & round 9 where he did quite well.

 

Well he knew he needed to start faster against Bivol because Bivol has good stamina and would be there in the later rounds. He exerted a lot of energy in rounds 1-4 landing big shots, impressing the judges, winning those rounds, but the consequence of that was he didn't have much left in the gas tank over the last 8 rounds, aside from round 9 where he dug down deep after Eddy lit a fire under him after round 8. Part of the problem is strategy but another part of the problem is conditioning and carrying excess weight. He has to work on his gas tank, especially if he wants to fight at 175 again, and pace himself better, tighten up his defense.

Beating Bivol is not an easy task for anyone. Canelo might be the biggest threat to Bivol, and that includes all the competition at 175. The rematch will be very interesting but I'm happy that Canelo isn't going straight into it. Bivol didn't seem too keen to get in there with Canelo right away again either. Better for Canelo to focus on defending his Undisputed at 168 against GGG and if he is successful, then fight John Ryder or Zach Parker in December or May next year. After that, then I could see it setting up a rematch with Bivol next September.

 

Canelo lost all of those rounds except possibly 9. I’ve watched the fight again several times and you can make a case for Bivol winning 9 as well. You are just used to Canelo getting credit for rounds he didn’t win. They almost did it this time but it doesn’t make it right. Even the corrupt judges couldn’t steal this one for Canelo. I like Canelo against most of the guys at 168 but Bivol is too skilled for him. Ancient GGG is a better matchup, a fight Canelo should be able to win. Slow and old, and he gets hit way too much. GGG is the perfect dance partner to get Canelo back in the win column. I don’t see Canelo fighting Bivol again and don’t blame him after the first fight.

 

No David Benavidez after GGG? That’s a fight I’d like to see for Canelo. A true test, not Ryder or Parker.

 

Then I fail to see what Canelo can do differently. Starting slow to preserve stamina gives away rounds to Bivol, he digs himself into a hole; starting fast to impress the judges (personally I think they were overly impressed, but that's neither here nor there) he gets the early rounds but is exhausted and easy pickings for Bivol the rest of the fight.

Going back to 168 won't improve his stamina issues at 175, especially when those stamina issues seem to be unrelated to weight as they've plagued him from 154 on up.

 

No shadow....you are dishonest and I've demonstrated that many times...you are merely trying to bait me into a circular conversation where you lie and shift goal posts. I'm not interested because it's not a discussion with you. it never was it's about control and trying to assert a false premise.

I think you have had a brain injury at some point possibly been in a car crash or some other form of head trauma.

I've come to this conclusion as I've eliminated everything else under DSM5 classification and it's the only thing left that fits your behaviour.

 

Even if you think Canelo lost 1-4, which is certainly debatable, in no way shape or form could those rounds be described as Canelo being "thoroughly outboxed and dominated". Rounds 1-4 were very comptitive, close, Canelo landed some brutal uppercuts and bicep bombs in those rounds, plus jabs and body shots, and Bivol while throwing a lot of punches wasn't landing clean. Canelo was blocking and defending well in those rounds. So again, if you want to argue Bivol won rounds 1-4, then OK, I don't agree, but even if you gave those rounds to Bivol, they were far from dominate rounds from Bivol. So your statement that Canelo was "thoroughly outboxed and dominated the whole night" is fabrication. I can see you describing rounds 5-8 or 10-12 as that, though even that is a bit of a stretch, but rounds 1-4 and round 9, no way jose. Those were not even remotely dominant Bivol rounds.