Who has accomplished more in their career? Deontay Wilder or Michael Grant?

Well Wilder has become a paper champion so he at least has that.

Out of all the world champions that had more than a 1-2 fight run wilder has achieved the least though. His reign is truly pathetic

 

Lmao

No.

 

Haye struggled at cruiserweight against Mormeck, Fragomeni and he lost to old Carl Thompson, he never had a
good gas tank and his chin was always questionable.

His best win at heavyweight was Valuev a guy who was beaten before more convincingly by Chagaev and 46 year
old Holyfield who got robbed in that fight.

Yes, Wilder would have destroyed Haye.

 

Come on at least be consistent. You're berating Haye for his quality of opposition and how he struggled against inferior fighters but seem to have blindly missed the fact Wilder is basically following the same career path as Haye only taking even fewer risks than Haye did.

Yeah Haye struggled with Mormeck who lets be fair was the unified cruiserweight champion at the best at the weight, that's better than Wilder struggling with Ortiz, at least Mormeck won titles.

Yeah Haye struggled with other guys too but so did Wilder, vs Molina, Sconiers and Nichols.

Yes Haye lost to Thompson a world class cruiser and former title holder who was a brutal one punch KO artist. Who was Wilder fighting in his 11th fight? Dustin Nichols that's who. Thank god he was fighting someone as bad as Nichols, had he been fighting Thompson and Thompson cracked his chin with one of his right hands he probably wouldn't of gotten up.

No denying Haye's career at heavy was all smoke and mirrors, he fought nobody of any true worth all the while trash talking the Klitschko's at every opportunity, as I said Wilder has basically doing the same thing for most of his title reign.

Maybe Wilder beats Haye, maybe not, maybe the sparring sessions they had weren't as one sided as those edited clips Haye released but the fact Wilder never called out a cash cow like Haye makes me wonder.

 

Wilder by 100miles.

 

Mormeck was a good cruiserweight but he won the titles in a weak division, he would never have succeeded at
heavyweight, comparing Mormeck with Ortiz a genuine heavyweight is laughable.

Mormeck would have lost to Ortiz at heavyweight, his best win Bryant Jennings would have been a formidable
cruiserweight, probably even better than Mormeck.

Haye struggled with Fragomeni who would have been Szpilka level at heavyweight AT BEST.

Haye never beat a heavyweight on the same level as Ortiz, he didn't do anything to suggest he would have beaten Wilder, absolutely nothing.

 

This. Haye was a heck of a fighter in his prime, but even then didn't have great stamina. Haye would give Wilder a tough fight in the early and middle rounds, but when Haye starts slowing down Wilder would knock him out.

 

Mormeck obviously would of never succeeded at heavyweight being so small, but when Haye fought him he was only a cruiser too, so while I would never pick Mormeck to beat Ortiz it's a comparable quality of win in their respective divisions.

Jennings best win at heavyweight was a SD over a blown up cruiser in Mike Perez. So maybe Mormeck could of beaten Jennings if Jennings could only manage a SD over Perez. I don't think they were miles apart.

Wilder struggled with Nichols who isn't even Fragomeni level. It's easy enough to pick apart different fighters resumes, fact is Haye was a better fighter than Fragomeni and struggled against the durable Fragomeni but only lost a few rounds. Fragomeni also wasn't that bad, he was 21-0 at the time, went on the fight for a title where he drew with Wlodarczyk and lost a narrow decision vs Zsolt Erdei and beat Branco a former light heavy champion. Fragomeni was a solid euro level fighter and a good test for Haye in only his 18th fight.

True Haye has never beaten a heavy on Ortiz's level but same could be said for Ortiz in regards to Haye. Haye would KO Jennings. Maybe Haye doesn't beat Wilder but I wouldn't have Wilder a big favourite, he's done nothing to be a big favourite over Haye and he hasn't fought anyone with Haye's attributes.

 

The comparison of the wins doesn't matter because we talking about a potential Heavyweight matchup between
Wilder and Haye, it doesn't matter what Haye has done at cruiserweight, i only pointed out that he already struggled at cruiserweight with far smaller, slower and less powerful fighters than Wilder.

You talkin about Haye struggling with Fragomeni because it was only his 18th fight but you didn't mention that Wilder fought against Nichols in his 11th fight and he stopped him in the first round, he didn't struggle with Nichols at all and only the fact that you mention that fight speaks for an agenda.

Also i'm not so sure that Haye would knock Jennings out, he is pretty durable and imo he is at least on the same
level as Chisora who gave Haye some troubles and who knows if Haye wouldn't have managed to knock him out
maybe he would have lost because he started to run out of gas.

 

I can't see it any other way.

 

I'll concede that yes his achievements at cruiser don't mean much at heavyweight.

Agenda? I clearly said Nichols was Wilder's 11th fight, that's clear as day.

Plus you're the one that mentioned Haye losing to Thompson but failed to mention it was his 11th fight. By your own criteria you have an agenda? I'm not saying that I don't think you have an agenda, but your own actions contradict your statement in regards to agenda's. At least be consistent with your arguments.

Maybe Jennings goes the distance with Haye but I doubt it. Ortiz knocked him out and Haye despite his smoke and mirrors record at heavyweight was a genuine huge puncher at heavyweight. Who else has properly KO'ed Chisora but Haye? Vitali couldn't do it, Helenius couldn't do it, Whyte couldn't do it, Fury made him quit but never had him really badly hurt.

 

You didn't mention it in the post i was replying to, you mentioned it in your first post, i give you that.

Haye losing to Thompson could help us to break down the fight between Wilder and Haye because he had immense stamina problems in this fight and subsequently got knocked out.

The fight with Nichols in which he allegedly struggled in your opinion doesn't help us, you clearly mentioned it to belittle Wilder, that's an agenda, i have none because i already mentioned that i was a fan of Haye and it's the truth.

Ortiz is also a huge puncher, there's not much between him and Haye when it comes to punching power, Haye is quicker but Ortiz has better punch selection, inside fighting skills and timing which helped him to win the fight against Jennings. Haye can't fight on the inside.

 

No I mentioned Wilder's 11th fight to highlight that a fighter during his 11th fight isn't the same fighter he is in his prime as a response to using the Thompson loss as a reason for Haye losing.

Obviously I wouldn't expect Wilder now to get dropped by any version of Nichols just like I wouldn't expect prime Haye to blow his load like he did vs Thompson and pay for it later.

Does Haye have stamina issues, yes, obviously he does, no denying that. But that didn't stop Haye going 12 with Wlad. Haye had to be pressed to make his stamina issues surface such as the Chisora fight but that fight showed pressuring Haye comes at a cost namely it opens you up to be KO'ed.

The way Wilder fights now he doesn't pressure guys, I don't think he brings enough volume or pressure to make Haye gas. Doesn't mean Wilder wouldn't beat Haye though, he wins via landing one big shot, thing is Haye would be looking to do the same. Ortiz who is much slower and less explosive than Haye almost did it, Haye definitely has a punchers chance. Which comes back to my original statement about Wilder never calling out Haye despite the payday it would of brought him.

As for Jennings, Haye wouldn't need to fight Jennings on the inside, he moves much better than Ortiz, he could catch him coming in quite easily. Plus Jennings lacks the power to make Haye respect him, he'll likely dispatch Jennings without much difficulty.

 

That's fair enough.

That's true Haye did go 12 rounds with Wlad because he wasn't throwing a lot of punches and he probably wouldn't run out of gas, at least not to the same degree he did against Thompson.

As for Wilder, Haye didn't have the fundamentals of Ortiz, he was an in and out fighter who had great athletic
ability but not the greatest skillset, he was often very sloppy and telegraphing his punches. Actually he was
similar to Wilder, only that Wilder is a bigger, better conditioned and more powerful version.

I think this would be an interesting fight for as long as it lasts but Wilder would catch up to him in the mid rounds
and knock him out. I think Wilder could take Hayes punches better than the other way round.

I would definitely favor Haye against Jennings but i'm not sure if he would be as dominant as Ortiz against him.

 

Bully for you, dumbass.