Who has better footwork: Liston or Louis?

Disagree. That was by no means a dead even fight.

 

I think you're going a bit too far here M2S. I agree that Liston's mystique has been blown way out of proportion, and this whole "cleaned out the division" "beat all styles" **** is massively tenuous. Ali was near the peak of his powers when he fought Liston, if not quite at it. I think the Jones fight struggles are blown massively out of proportion (I only gave Jones 2 rounds IIRC, 3 max) and it's clear he was toying with Cooper until the left hook woke him up.

Also, if you're going to claim that Foreman beat the ten count in Zaire, then in a sense Liston did to. Whether or not he dived first is debatable, but he did seem to lie there waiting for 8 or 9, and did get back up when Walcott reached it. That suggests he was willing to try and go on.

 

Oh yeah, and NO WAY was Liston in the first fight. No way. He was getting whooped most of the time. He may have won one round through Ali being blinded and maybe one more through just out-working Ali, but there was zero doubt about the outcome in my mind.

 

That's ****ing rich. He knows more than you mate.

 

:deal

Now I would pick Clay/Ali over either man, but yes, picture how Clay-louis might have unfolded and contrast that with how Clay - Liston and Ali-Liston DID unfold.

I don't think there's much doubt which of Louis or Liston had the better footwork.

 

He Grant is quick with insults, but not too clever in argument imo.

 

1. I haven't seen Folley much in a while I remember him being a slick defensive counter punching mover, the point about handling the fleet footed Machen stands

2. Or they think he was pre-prime against those men and complacent against Cooper

3. He didn't quit in the rematch, was his shoulder injury legit in the first? I'm not sure, missing punches can cause rotator tears though and when he landed his left hook on Ali it caused no reaction

4. No way was this even despite Ali being blinded in 1 round, Liston was hurt pretty early from what I remember

Anyway I see Liston having an easier time with Walcott/Schmelling/Conn

 

McVey, you're quite a character. Unprovoked, you snipe and point fingers when the mood strikes you. If you don't like my debates you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However don't play holier than thou, you're no innocent.

 

See I didn't know it was the left but I guessed after being suprised that he had Ali blinded, hit him with the left, which he didnt seem to be able to turn over properly. A few fighters got their left rotators torn against Byrd when he was slipping their jab. I still think part of him thought 'F it I can't win this'

 

Even richer.

 

Both Louis and Liston had good footwork, and Louis was especially good at cutting off the ring.

 

I am tempted to say the second Godoy fight was an example of how Louis learned to cut of the ring but have not seen it in a while .. I know it was a great example of him learning to adapt ...