Who has better footwork: Liston or Louis?

Ali played around with Cooper and it payed big time. I don't think he was legitimately struggling, but I don't think he was perfect out there. Cooper landed a lot of shots that he shouldn't have, even in the earlier rounds. I would say Ali had control of the outcome of the fight, but not complete control of the fight. But he was still winning... I say control of the outcome because Cooper bleeds so bad that he was getting stopped anyway. Ali played around too much trying to make right on his prediction. He wasn't in trouble the way he was against Sonny Banks.

Watching Cooper, and then Liston I you see a transformation before your eyes. He looks like a boy, not fully matured physically to me. Ali was visibly improved.

 

I wouldn't be certain of him having an "easier" time with Walcott at all. Not only was Walcott very quick on his toes at that stage of his career, but he also had a pretty quick and powerful sneak right hand, and that's a punch Liston was somewhat open to throughout his career. Plus we don't know how Liston would respond (mentally or physically) to Walcott's frustrating antics. On top of that, Walcott was also the more proven and accomplished fighter at the world class level.

 

Not very, as it's basically academic. For starters, no matter what his justification for quitting might've been, it will always be some sort of mark against him as you can always find another fighter out there that was in a comparable situation and either went the distance or at least lasted longer into the fight. (For example, Floyd Patterson is credited with fighting the same Ali with a severe back injury, and not only withstood much more punishment and was dominated more thoroughly, but fought all the way into the 12th round; and in the rematch w/ Ali, a much older Patterson lasted into the 7th round with severe facial injuries.)

Having said that, fighters nearly always have a chance to redeem themselves at least partially, or prove a prior result to be a fluke, no matter how damaging the loss was (after all, Duran was able to largely redeem himself from one of the most embarrassing quit-jobs in history). By simply falling over in the rematch (and then heading to Europe and avoiding ranked opponents for a couple years after that), Liston not only failed to redeem himself from the first fight, but actually reinforced the result.

He lost in the first round to Ali. Only one other fighter ever did that in Ali's long career, and that was at the clubfighter level. That alone is a huge mark against him, regardless of any other details.

If you feel (as it seems is generally believed) that Liston came into that fight with intentions of quitting, then that just hurts him even more.

 

I actually think Jersey Joe Walcott is a very bad matchup for Sonny Liston for reasons you stated.

 

On the whole, yes.

Although Liston lost to a worthier opponent, his willingness to surrender his World Title and his apparent indifference to regaining it hurt his legacy more IMO.

Worse.

 

I don't go out of my way to PM others about you you ****ing imbecile. Talk about strange. It's like you want to think I'm obsessed with you at this point. Real bizarre. Your reading comprehension blows.

Others have called you out on distorting or incorrectly quoting people.

There he goes again. I would like a direct quote where I said that I troll the forum. I said inciting you against your favorites is fun but I'm interested in the topic at hand. If that's your definition of trolling, then I troll. You... you distort.

I don't follow you. How many threads are there at one time in classic? The place don't move like general.

 

As I said in the earlier post, Ali just doesn't KO guys in the 1st round, even at the clubfighter level. Rahman at least can do that, regardless of his other limitations, and Lewis at least managed to tough it out with him for a few rounds.

 

No I didn't. This was not said, you continuously misinterpret things. :good

 

Louis for sure. He had great overall movement and used his legs very well.