Who has better resume; Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali?

When you actually map out the men Ali beat it’s insane…literally insane that anyone could have run that gauntlet the way he did. Louis is a close second but I edge it out to Ali for beating the better men. Although both have an impressive list of champs both former and future. And Ali did it without getting knocked out somehow. Looks all the more impressive when Foreman comes back winning the title twenty years later! The murderers row of punchers from Ali were as follows. Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, Williams, Bonavena. Add in decent punchers like Quarry, Patterson, Moore, Cooper, Folley, Norton, Foster, Bugner, Jones. It’s even more impressive. Certainly the threat level was higher then Louis best. Which were no walk in the park either.

 

I could be trollish and say "Wepner."

But yes, it's true that Ali demonstrated more durability during his second reign than the otherwise superior 60s version did.

That doesn't matter much, though. Heck, Oliver McCall demonstrated more durability than Ali or Louis. That doesn't make McCall a great fighter.

 

1977 Ali absorbed bigger bombs than 1960s Ali did against Cooper. But nobody considers 1977 Ali a better fighter.

At the end of the day, the better version of Ali got KD'd by Cooper. That's clearly relevant when you're arguing that Louis should be penalized compared to Ali for getting KD'd by Galento and Baer.

 

Don't try and bring logic into this, coward.

 

I won’t vote on the poll as I often have these guys tied for first at heavy. And in truth they have different types of achievements. Joe Louis had uninterrupted long term dominance. Muhammad Ali beat a gallery of opponents who rate very high by many historians standards and overcame huge betting odds to defeat men he wasn’t supposed to. I have no problem with anyone who rates one over the other, but in my book they will be locked in as the two best for a very long time…. Maybe forever

 

I'm curious. Why do you count losing to Schmeling as losing to a "Hall of Fame type" but not count beating Schmeling as a "high level" win?

 

Ali has FIVE wins over THREE of my top ten ATG list.
(Foreman, Frazier , Liston)

Joe's best name (Jersey Joe Walcott) is 17 on my list.

And that's just at the top of the list. If we go further down Ali's list, I think he has quite a bit better set of names than has Joe.

I have Joe at number 2 all-time .

Longevity, and highly skilled.

 

You're changing the goal posts. You were referring to Ali's second reign when you made this post.
"Second reign, he was never able to cement himself as dominant. He pulled wins out, but didn't stand head and shoulders above his competitors like he used to."
So you can't bring in knockdowns from a completely different reign to prove your point.

 

I wasn't arguing Ali demonstrated his superiority solely based on his durability. I was arguing against your point that Ali was never able to cement himself as dominant in his second career and didn't stand head and shoulders above his opponents like he did previously. Louis himself wasn't exactly dominant himself at times when he found himself on the canvas 10+ times in his career.

Also, it's a lot easier to look better against guys like Baer than it is Foreman, Frazier, Norton, etc.

 

Louis bludgeoning Max Baer was incredible, though. I know, you're talking about Big Buddy Baer but thought I'd throw that in.

 

Ali did fight a lot of old dudes in his first rodeo.

 

Chimes very much with my thought process when asked to evaluate this two great fighters, well laid out response. sty safe buddy.

 

The fact that Ali was past his best in his second reign and the level of competition was stronger probably makes his overall achievements greater.
Having said that I have no issue with people having Joe Louis as number one.

 

Two great fighters obviously, but my pick is Ali.