Who has gone to war with Pac?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by dangerousity, Jul 23, 2021.


  1. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think people forget that for the longest time, everyone’s plan was to “back up the smaller Pac”, so the plan was to pressure him. Since Morales won with this strategy.

    But aside from Morales, who has dared to pressure Pac and had success with it?

    “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”. Everyone has a plan to throw punches at Manny until they feel the power and they decided to spoil the fight by either run/turtle up. By spoiling the fight, less punches are exchanged, less damage taken, it’s a defense mechanism for them.

    - ODLH. Turtled up, couldn’t get off.
    - Hatton. True to his word, got ktfo being true.
    - Cotto. Started off pressuring. Got hurt and decided to run.
    - Mosley. Ran.
    - Clottey. Turtled up.
    - Margo. True to his word, paid the price.
    - Rios. Turtled up.
    - Floyd. Ran, hugged, ran, hugged.
    - Horn. Flurry then fell and hugged and spoilt.
    - The rest ran.
    - Oh ye, JMM. He pulled it off but let’s not pretend some luck was involved. He was in as much danger as Pac was in that firefight.

    Thurman was the last one and that was telling, and he only could because Pacs stamina could not keep up. 2010 Pac would have utterly destroyed and finished him.

    If Pac comes in shape into this fight, he may very well have Spence rethinking his game plan early.
     
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  2. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

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    I think Spence will not do it from the beginning. Pacquiao will gas in the second half then he will be more vulneable.
     
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  3. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    I don’t think you know Spence’s game plan at all if you think he is a brawler.
     
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  4. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    Morales and Marquez over and over had famous war with Pacquiao.

    I'm not sure how many fighters threw more punches than him besides Mayweather.
     
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  5. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don't think he was saying Spence was a brawler he's very far from that, more an intelligent pressure fighter. Like how good he is at taking that half step back and walking guys into counters. Which works very well for him vs most opponents, less so against Pac who can cut the distance down so quickly and hit you with that straight left before you can get that counter off. At least it did, who knows if this version of Pac can still do that.

    But his original point is valid, pressuring Pac usually ends in disaster. It took JMM 4 fights to land the perfect counter right hand.
     
  6. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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  7. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Exactly this. Maybe I should have instead asked "who has succesfully pressured Pac without resorting to foul and hugging tactics". For a while, this was the common thought for how to beat Pac, back him up as he can't fight going backwards.

    The last was Morales 1. It didn't work that well in the 2nd and 3rd fight. Many people will not acknowledge this, but it very much hard to do with Reyes vs Winning gloves. Reyes gloves are called the punchers gloves for a reason. Amongst other reasons of course, Morales weight, Pac improving, adapting to the weight better (I believe 130 was his first fight with Morales).

    And sure JMM did this but no one can deny that was a hell of a fight. And JMM was very close to paying the price before he pulled the perfect counter. The 4th fight, JMM went to war and that was the closest he was to being stopped since JMM-Pac 1.

    As for intelligent pressure fighters. Cotto very much fit that bill, but he quickly abandoned that strategy after the first 4 rounds. Other brawlers are Diaz, Hatton, Margo, Rios. The first 2 paid the price and Margo and Rios despite coming forward, actually fought a lot more conservatively than they did in previous fights. Margo actually kept a high guard and used his jab. Against Mosley, he was walking him down with his chin, hands down.

    My point is, to pressure Pac means to get within his range. If you're in his range, he can fire a fast combination at you and step out/side, rinse, repeat. Pretty much what he did to all other pressure fighters. You put yourself in great danger getting into Pac's range.

    Mayweather's strategy was to stay tf out of range. Whenever May got within Pac's range, he spoilt it by bending below the waist and pushing forward to force a clinch.

    Bradley also tried to go to war and got hurt, so he went back to being slick.

    I am not sure Spence can handle the power inside. If he can't, he'll have to fight from Range, so it'll be a less action packed fight. But IMO, that might be his best bet. I don't think he'll win, fighting the way he plans to as can be seen in the leaked sparring vid.
     
  8. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Noted because that was the impression.
    Details are important and different ways a guy like Spence applies pressure. Spence does not have to walk down Pacquiao he can do him in with his excellent positioning, timing and jabs. Spence’s jab is the best in the business and the way he attacks the body will not be good for the 42 year old Pacquiao.
     
  9. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Cotto was one of the best bodypunchers in his day, and one of the best jabs along with Ward, Klitschko and Floyd.

    Pac's short body does well for him. He can cover his head and body at the same time and taller fighters have to reach lower.

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  10. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    I believe Spence has multiple ways to win this fight and I don’t believe Pacquiao can last the pace Spence sets and Pacquiao will be forced to get desperate in this fight which will contribute to him getting knocked out. Pacquiao has already made some key mistakes and assumptions. These include him think Thurman is better and more athletic than Spence. Wrong Spence is far better than Thurman and the version of Thurman that Pacquiao faced. He thinks Spence is better than Mayweather and cannot advice Spence. This is wrong Mayweather is better than Spence but Spence can do to Pacquiao the things Mayweather did to him with more explosive power.
     
  11. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Yes he was and Cotto had some successes against Pacquiao but could not make adjustments when Pacquiao switched things up. This for me is the key difference is that Spence can and will keep making the necessary adjustments.
     
  12. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think that's key, does Spence have more gears to him that we haven't seen? He will need to step it up a notch if he finds that he can't just pressure Pac and systematically break him down.

    Cotto did adjust, he boxed, which he can do very well and tbh, he had more success with than the pressuring style of the first half of the fight. By then, he was too beat up.
     
  13. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with this. The pace will be very telling, but I noticed that Pac's camp is specially focused on conditioning and taking bodyshots in this camp. So I hope he comes in 15 rounds shape.

    I don't think they actually believe Thurman is better than Spence. You can see it in their demeanour. Pac said he was going to "teach" Thurman a lesson, take him to school, which he did but it shows how confident Pac was. He seems to be taking this fight very seriously and knows it will be one of his toughest fights, ever.

    Spence and Floyd's style are worlds apart. Mayweather beat Pac with range and spoiling the fight. It was a pretty simple strategy, jab and potshot at range, Pac won't throw if he's out of range. As soon as Pac get in range, bend below the waist and initiate a clinch, reset. Do it for 12 rounds. Easy.

    Spence can't do that. Floyd could keep Pac at range because:
    1. His counters are literally the best in the world, one of the best ever. So Pac couldn't recklessly lunge in.
    2. He had the speed to pull it off, foot and handspeed to react quickly enough if he misses a jab. Although he got countered hard a couple of times himself.

    Spence feet, although economical, aren't that fast. Pac will close the gap quicker than he can react. I think he gets outpointed in a chess match.

    I can see Spence using that long jab, pushing Pac down and throwing Pac off with that jab if he misses (he hits to the top of head and then pulls the head down as he pulls it back). This will spoil Pac and throw him off. Then he can lay in the bodyshots and left hands.
     
  14. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    The key for Spence to win is to prepare for and treat Pacquiao as peak Pacquiao. I think Derrick James knows this and is treating it accordingly. Thurman thought Pacquiao was over the hill and paid the price. Floyd did not make that mistake and neither will Spence. You don’t fight a guy like Pacquiao think he is a normal fighter.
     
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  15. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Cotto should have boxed Pacquiao all night but at some stage he tried to bully him which was his downfall. The key to beating Pacquiao is to box him , counter punch him and frustrate then he when he becomes desperate he becomes more dangerous to his opponent and crucially himself and liable to walk into something. I see Pacquiao getting stopped by the bigger stronger man who proves he is the better fundamental boxer.
     
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